Do not take civics lessons from this woman

Diane Ravitch (HUFFINGTON POST LINK HOTSPUR ).

Claiming that Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker is teaching “reverse” civic lessons, Ravitch lists the 8 “lessons” we can learn from the recent political happenings.

Lesson one?

Citizens should not be hoodwinked by rhetoric. Governor Walker said that the state was broke. He said that public sector workers had to make larger contributions to the cost of their pensions and health care, even as he handed out generous corporate tax breaks for the same amount. Doing a reverse Robin Hood, he took from the middle class to enrich the powerful.

The state is broke, just like most of the states in the US. Public workers are being asked to make larger contributions to THEIR pensions and THEIR health care. The are being asked TO ACTUALLY MAKE SOME contribution. See, before it was zero, and now it is a small contribution. Which, of course, is “larger” in a sense. And those contributions they’ll be making? It’s going to actually go toward their pensions and health care, and isn’t actually being given – in any sense- in the form of tax breaks to corporations.

Lesson two is some stupid comment about voting percentages.

Lesson three: Voters should listen carefully to the candidates and ask for details about what they will do if they win. Walker said he was going to balance the budget. Those of us who live here on the planet Earth knew that meant people on the take in government were going to get a little less.

Lesson four:

Politics in a democracy is different from politics in an authoritarian state. When there is strong opposition to their decisions, they negotiate and compromise. Negotiation and compromise are not signs of weakness, but of the disposition needed to build consensus.

Unless, of course, you just flee the state refusing to participate in good faith. See the Stephen Hayes article linked below for a detailed explanation of how dishonest the democrats were in their efforts at compromise.

Lesson five:

Leaders in a democracy do not crush their opposition. Politics is not war. Leaders may not agree with the people on the other side of the aisle, but at the end of the day, they recognize them as “my loyal opposition,” not my enemy. That spirit of comity is at the heart of our democracy. Elected officials do not destroy those with whom they disagree.

Baahaa haaaa. You’re kidding, right? See Obama.
“I won.”
“Grab a mop.”
“Get in the back seat.”

Moving on. Lesson six:

Citizens should not believe politicians who talk “school reform” yet plan to cut $1 billion from the state’s education budget, while privatizing public schools. Schools will be devastated by the cuts. Class sizes will soar. Programs that children need will be eliminated. And for-profit operators will find a way to make money from a dire situation. This is not school reform.

If people haven’t figured out by now that more money does NOT equate to a better education, then we truly are lost.

Lesson seven:

Governor Walker’s attack on teachers has galvanized millions of demoralized teachers across the nation. The fact that Wisconsin’s teachers organized and protested in the face of insuperable odds has inspired their colleagues across the nation.

And the teacher’s protests have galvanized public support AGAINST teachers.

In lesson eight, Ravitch appeals to the UN’s International Declaration of Human Rights.

In his effort to destroy public sector unions, Governor Walker joins in common cause with other Republican governors, including those in New Jersey, Ohio, Idaho, Tennessee, and Indiana and elsewhere. It’s time to remind them that the International Declaration of Human Rights, adopted by the United Nations in 1948, contains Article 23, section 4, which says: “Everyone has the right to form and to join trade unions for the protection of his interests.” When the Declaration was passed, only eight nations abstained, not only the Soviet bloc, but also South Africa — which opposed the pledge of racial equality — and Saudi Arabia — which objected to the pledge of religious toleration.

So Governor Walker and his fellow anti-union governors have decided to demolish one of the pillars of a democratic society: the right to join a trade union for the protection of one’s interests. Totalitarian societies ban unions outright or create faux unions without any collective bargaining rights. Not a club that good Americans should want to join!

The United States is not ruled by the United Nations. It is not our supreme authority. That would be the Constitution, which is the document most educated folks here in the United States appeal to as the pillar of our democratic society.

Do NOT take civic lessons from this woman since mostly what she is teaching is union propaganda.

Who niether sees nor understands the difference between a private and a public work force union.

And apparently doesn’t understand why one work force should be allowed to unionize, while the unfettered rights of the other to do so are a danger to our democracy.

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280 Comments on “Do not take civics lessons from this woman”

  1. AmericanInsurgent Says:

    Corporatist/teabagger lies and propaganda!!! You may not like it but this country voted with all but 9 nations to ratify the Universal Declaration of Human Rights in 1948. The nations, who voted against these basic human rights of any civilized society, included the Soviet bloc (the right wing’s sworn enemy), Saudi Arabia, and South Africa. 63 years later you teabaggers and neoconservatives want to join those totalitarian and xenophobic countries to be international outlaws. You are saying our country is not bound to follow basic rules of human dignity. Your attitude as practiced by Bush Junior and even Obama not only tolerating but committing international war crimes is despicable.
    Your corporatist masters are living on borrowed time. The right wing historically overreaches like Walker did in Wisconsin. IT IS CORPORATIONS that have no human rights and since the SCOTUS ignored centuries of precedent to grant corporations personal rights, we will use state law to kill the corporations. You and your kind are just using the corporate structure to steal and kill and rape our environment. We will impose the corporate death penalty by revoking your corporate charters and the criminals hiding behind the corporate veil will go to jail. And, the criminal corporations’ fraudulently acquired assets will be liquidated and returned to the People.

  2. Car in Says:

    Ba haa haaa haa …

    You serious?

  3. Car in Says:

    I think Michael Moore just visited my blog.

  4. MJ Says:

    AI: That was the most thought provoking comment I’ve read here in a while. Thank you so much for informing people of what the tinfoil hat crowd thinks.

    I could take the time to refute your points, but in all honesty, I’ve learned that trying to hold a conversation with people of your belief system if futile. Religious zealots can’t be reasoned with.

    If you need a job, how about waxing my car? I’ll pay minimum wage. Now go get your sponge.

  5. Hotspur Says:

    Hahahaha

    Carin, you win the future. Why can’t we get one of these at H2?

  6. xbradtc Says:

    Well, if teachers want to practice a trade, rather than supply a service to the community, let them.

    But please note, that while the UNDHR says people are free to form and join unions, it does not mandate it. What kind of human right is it that Wisconsin teachers were forced to participate and fund a union that may or may not represent their own perceived best interests? Doesn’t our 1st Amendment right to free association protect our right to NOT associate, regardless of which job we enter into?

    And if you weren’t wrapped up in your misconceptions, you’d realize that the reform legislation recently passed in Wisconsin does not ban or otherwise prohibit teachers from being unionized.

  7. Jay in Ames Says:

    We will impose the corporate death penalty by revoking your corporate charters and the criminals hiding behind the corporate veil will go to jail. And, the criminal corporations’ fraudulently acquired assets will be liquidated and returned to the People.

    Are you hearing the Soviet National Anthem as you write this? I’m picturing a scene for The Hunt for Red October, myself.

  8. Car in Says:

    xbrad, it wasn’t Svenster, but you’ve got keys to go back and edit. Our new friend is “American Insurgent.”

  9. mare Says:

    “We will impose…”

    Hey, drama queen, who the hell is this “we” you speak of?


  10. I’m just basking in the glow of the “New Civility” as practiced by our friends on the Left, aren’t you?

  11. Car in Says:

    I think we scared the little commie off.

    So sad.


  12. And, the criminal corporations’ fraudulently acquired assets will be liquidated and returned to the People.

    One wonders who will build the iPhones and develop new Apps when there is no corporation to support the infrastructure necessary to allow such wonders of modern technology to come into existence.

    What’s the name of the Soviet/Cuban/Iranian equivalent of these inventions, again? Bueller? Bueller?

    It’s really going to suck for these people when they have no electronic platform from which to spout their superior platitudes, isn’t it?

  13. MJ Says:

    It was a pretty good rant. AI hit all of the talking points. I love the ‘evil corporate master’ thing.

    Who gets to decide who the evil companies are? The ones that power the laptop and heat the coffee at starbucks are evil, but the user of the power isn’t, right?

    I’d love to stay here all day, but I need to finish skinning this seal in order to make pillows for my polar bear skin couch. What? According to AI they’ll all be dead soon anyway, I’m sure. I’m just alleviating their suffering and ‘recycling’ the poor creatures.

  14. agiledog Says:

    we will use state law to kill the corporations

    and

    We will impose the corporate death penalty by revoking your corporate charters

    So much for that new civility thingie, huh? Sounds like death threats to me….

    So, AmericanIdiot, when your mindless collective does this: “fraudulently acquired assets will be liquidated and returned to the People“, how are your union bosses gonna retire? Most union pension plans are invested in mutual funds and direct stock ownership. I don’t see too many individuals listed on the New York Stock Exchange – only corporations.

  15. mare Says:

    Oh, by the way, AI, free countries don’t “impose” anything.

  16. xbradtc Says:

    Don’t forget that AI also managed to sneak in a bit about “war crimes”, which I’ve always found to be “stuff that isn’t a war crime, but who cares, I don’t like it anyway!”


  17. Ahhhh, yes. My corporate “masters”.

    Those would be the people who build the components that go into the things that make society work. Those who make those components and processes better, so that they can do more, and do it faster. That would be the ones who provide good jobs to people so that they can buy homes, and boats, and cars, and computers with all the latest software. That would be the genetic and medical researchers who toil away daily to find the newest miracle cures so that a chronic medical condition or minor infection doesn’t have to be a death sentence.

    Perhaps AI should consider that as he types away on his manifesto in his college dorm room on the laptop made by evil corporatists, using the software and infrastructure built by evil corporatists. Of course, that might cause him to turn off the “Rage Against The Machine”, step outside, and think about who delievered the coffee beans that made up the latte he was sipping as he read this morning’s issue of the World Socialist Gazette.

  18. xbradtc Says:

    “fraudulently acquired assets will be liquidated and returned to the People“

    Oh, by the way, corporations already belong to the “People”~ that’s what a “public” corporation is, a company that is owned by people who bought shares…

  19. AmericanInsurgent Says:

    Teabaggers get educated. The NYSE and Wall Street is a big part of the problem. It just a huge gambling casino for the wall street assholes to gamble away our money. The real reason the States’ Pension Funds are in trouble is because Wall Street stole the assets of these pension funds. Not a single one of those corporate crooks has gone to jail. But you righties are either rich pricks yourself or too stupid to realize you are voting to screw yourselves.
    You ask who “we” are; “We” are the People as opposed to the anonymous corporations that bought the midterm elections.
    Have any of you sheeple noticed that your best buddies the corporations have been outsourcing American jobs overseas or into Mexico for 30 years?

  20. count Says:

    Have any of you sheeple noticed that your best buddies the corporations have been outsourcing American jobs overseas or into Mexico for 30 years?

    far from the reach of unreasonable union demands… go figure…


  21. Have any of you sheeple noticed that your best buddies the corporations have been outsourcing American jobs overseas or into Mexico for 30 years?

    Not any of the corporations that I represent. Frankly, the quality standards for the finished product are far too high to risk to the average worker in the turd world. And you really should be glad for that.


  22. You ask who “we” are; “We” are the People as opposed to the anonymous corporations that bought the midterm elections.

    As opposed to the not-so-anonymous unions who have been spending hundreds of thousands of dollars to elect Democrats for decades? It must be difficult to see anything clearly with that plank in your eye, brother.

  23. AmericanInsurgent Says:

    BP covers the Gulf of Mexico with an oil slick. When that well blew up 12 men were killed and the well blew up b/c the corporations in charge put profits ahead of safety.
    The reason Wall Street was out of control and nearly put us in a Great Depression is because the corporatists in Congress and in Clinton’s administration repealed Glass-Steagall, which had prohibited banks from using your bank deposits to invest/gamble on the stock market.
    For 8 years of Junior Inc, you teabaggers never made a sound about big government or deficits. You wackos question Obama’s citizenship but you didn’t care that the SCOTUS stopped the FLA recount and appointed Junior president.
    I am proud to be liberal, progessive, or left-wing, or whatever Fox Fiction nicknames you hear from Beck or Hannity or Limpballs. I can support my political positions with law, history, and reality. All’s you’ve got on your side is a bunch of corporatist owners of our government and your asses.
    Power to the People!

  24. agiledog Says:

    the corporations have been outsourcing American jobs overseas or into Mexico for 30 years

    And why have they done that? Because unions and out-of-control goverment are continuosly driving up the cost of doing business here. Who needs to get educated?

    And the real reason public pension funds are in trouble is because they haven’t had enough money put into them, based on the VERY generous benefits they pay out.

    And if it wasn’t for the NYSE and Wall Street, just where would people be investing money for a decent return? Do you have any idea what interest rate banks are paying on savings accounts? Do you know how long it takes a goverment treasury bond to mature? Do you have ANY FREAKING clue about money, besides what it takes to buy your half-decaf double mocha latte from Starbucks? Or is even that too much trouble for you, and you use a debit card kept fueled by your daddy?

  25. xbradtc Says:

    You ask who “we” are; “We” are the People as opposed to the anonymous corporations that bought the midterm elections.

    You mean anonymous corporations that publish the names and biographies of their officers and boards of directors, and who’s financial data is available to the public?

    Or “anonymous” like you, who spouts off shit he doesn’t even understand?

  26. agiledog Says:

    am proud to be liberal, progessive, or left-wing, or whatever Fox Fiction nicknames you hear from Beck or Hannity or Limpballs. I can support my political positions with law, history, and reality. All’s you’ve got on your side is a bunch of corporatist owners of our government and your asses.

    That statement right there will create a singularity of stupid.


  27. The real reason the States’ Pension Funds are in trouble is because Wall Street stole the assets of these pension funds.

    No. The real reason is that much like other ponzi schemes (Social Insecurity comes to mind), they have been funded with IOUs and the promises of puppies, lollipops, and rainbows for all instead of real money, and as the retirements are looming, it is becoming obvious that what was promised and what is avialable to pay are wildly different.

    Add the fact that many of these pensions are based solely on years of service, and not subject to age restrictions on payouts, means that longer lifespans lead to much longer payment periods than when defined pension benefit plans were originated, and are likely to outlast the assumptions and expectations used when these pension plans were first initiated.

    But don’t let those inconvenient facts stand in the way of such a splendid temper tantrum. Please, continue to tell us how it is all Wall Street’s fault.

  28. Car in Says:

    For 8 years of Junior Inc, you teabaggers never made a sound about big government or deficits.

    we didn’t? You don’t know us very well.

    I am proud to be liberal, progessive, or left-wing, or whatever Fox Fiction nicknames you hear from Beck or Hannity or Limpballs. I can support my political positions with law, history, and reality.

    You can support your communist position with law, history, and reality?

    This could get good.

    But, you’re going to have to focus because you’ve jumped from the UN Declaration, to “Corporatists” to BP.

    Good thing commies have such a nice safety record.

    Not to mention the people they just flat out starved to death.

    Nice that you can focus on the 12 who died in an accident and overlook the millions who have died while under a government that spouted that Power to the People bullshit.

  29. agiledog Says:

    And just for the record, BP stands for British Petroleum. Or didn’t you know that?

    Idiot.

  30. AmericanInsurgent Says:

    The unions are not the problem in campaign financing. 7 of the top 10 spenders in the last election were anonymous corporate cartels.
    That tea you’re bagging must be decaf. Wake up and smell the coffee!!!
    That NPR guy resigned for accurately describing the xenophobic, christian right, gun-toting teabaggers. You can’t handle the truth!


  31. For 8 years of Junior Inc, you teabaggers never made a sound about big government or deficits.

    Nice indictment. Except for the part about it being provably false.

    I was blogging when W. was in office. I was quite upset about the spending, and said so in print. Numerous times. And TARP? Don’t even get me started. I was on the front lines of people shouting “LET THEM FAIL, DAMMIT!!!!”

    If you want to blame someone for taking the economy to the brink, you should focus on people like Barney Frank, Franklin Raines, Jaime Gorelick, and others, who resisted any effort to reform FANNIE and FREDDIE for a span of years, despite repeated warnings from…wait for it…W himself about the trouble that the practices both GSEs engaged in while backed with taxpayer money. Private capital is private capital. They are free to invest and take those risks. But when that gambling is done with taxpayer money, and the people responsible suffered no consequence at all, I can’t begin to take you seriously, since your inablity to mention that in your rant speaks volumes.

  32. agiledog Says:

    And you have no knowledge of the truth – I don’t think you two are even aquaintances.

    7 of the top 10 spenders in the last election were anonymous corporate cartels.

    Some form of proof, please,(besides Kos kiddies.)

  33. Car in Says:

    wrong

    1, ActBlue
    2. SEIU
    3 Perry Homes
    4. NEA
    5 American Federation of Teachers
    6 Nation a Assn of Realtors
    7. TRT Holdings
    8.American Fedn of St/Cnty/munic employees
    9 Club for Growth
    10 AT &T

  34. Car in Says:

    And, of that list only Perry Homes, TRT, and Club for Growth gave to republicans.
    AT &T went both ways.

  35. Car in Says:

    Act blue – from OpenSecrets.org:

    Launched in 2004, ActBlue bills itself as “the online clearinghouse for Democratic action.” As a federally registered political action committee, it serves as a conduit for online contributions to Democratic candidates and committees. That is, ActBlue bundles and transmits earmarked contributions from individuals raised on their website to specific candidates. The organization assists Democratic candidates and committees of all ideological persuasion, helping moderates and liberals alike. Through mid-2010, it has helped funnel more than $134 million — and counting — in contributions. Because much of that money comes in donations below the $200 threshold for itemized disclosure, the total amount given by donors via ActBlue is considerably greater than the totals listed below, which are based on FEC filings of candidates and committees that receive this money. The group also maintains a 527 political organization registered with the Internal Revenue Service for non-federal political activities, and ActBlue has registered as a political committee in more than 20 states for its state-level activities. It does not lobby the federal government.

  36. AmericanInsurgent Says:

    It’s tough to respond to brilliant arguments like BP stands for British Petroleum. DUUUH!
    And it’s a corporation that makes billions of dollars in America, that was given access to American oil and killed American workers and destroyed the Gulf and cost Americans jobs.
    I guess somewhere in your argument is that we can’t do anything like revoke BP’s charter or kill their business in the USA. We could start by cancelling all of their oil leases. BP or any foreign corporation has to register with any state. So, just like Governor Walker can unilaterally cancel collective bargaining agreements, the states and the USA can cancel BP’s contracts and refuse them the right to operate.

  37. Car in Says:

    1) It was an accident.
    2) The gulf is coming back.
    3) Obama closed the rigs that caused the Job loss.

  38. MJ Says:

    Believe me, I’m the guy you hate. I work for a giant conglomerate. I have more than I need, but believe in keeping it, because I worked hard for it.

    Here’s the best piece of advice I can give to a class warfare whore like yourself: life isn’t fair. Get used to it. Trying to demagogue, or claim the moral high ground because you didn’t make it in life is no reason to snatch the opportunity of success from other people.

    Now get to work on my Beemers. They aren’t going to clean themselves.


  39. I guess somewhere in your argument is that we can’t do anything like revoke BP’s charter or kill their business in the USA. We could start by cancelling all of their oil leases. BP or any foreign corporation has to register with any state. So, just like Governor Walker can unilaterally cancel collective bargaining agreements, the states and the USA can cancel BP’s contracts and refuse them the right to operate.

    Just kill their business in the USA? “Revoke their charter”? (What, are you King George III dealing with rebellious colonies?)

    First of all, there are laws that would prevent the cancellation of their contracts, and even if their weren’t, there is that little matter of such an action constituting an unlawful taking.

    And no, Governor Walker didn’t “unilaterally” cancel collective bargaining rights. A majority of Wisconsin’s elected legislature voted to do so, and the Governor signed the bill. Do try to keep up.


  40. Unions Suck!
    (psst. we are paying you to protest the governor)
    Uh….whut?
    (the governor!)
    Oh right…the governor sucks!
    the governor sucks.
    the governor…where are the brownies?

  41. xbradtc Says:

    AI is really just Wiserbud joshing with us, right? I mean, he’s like the perfect parody of a frothing moonbat.

  42. agiledog Says:

    So, just like Governor Walker can unilaterally cancel collective bargaining agreements

    See, you don’t have any connection with the truth or reality. That is an outright lie. First, it was the elected representative of the state who crafted the law, not the Governor. Second, your silly reps fled the state (Fleebaggers!) rather than participate in the democratic process (I can’t win, so I’m taking my bat and ball and going home. Boo Hoo Hoo!) – so it was “unilateral” in that only the grownups participated. And third, they didn’t cancel all collective bargining, only some of it.

  43. xbradtc Says:

    So, just like Governor Walker can unilaterally cancel collective bargaining agreements, the states and the USA can cancel BP’s contracts and refuse them the right to operate.

    I’m a little surprised BiW didn’t mention it, but the commerce clause gives the FEDERAL government the power to regulate foreign trade, not the states.


  44. I’m a little surprised BiW didn’t mention it, but the commerce clause gives the FEDERAL government the power to regulate foreign trade, not the states.

    I left it alone because anyone who spouts the nonsense AI has spouted so far in this thread has never read it and is hoping that none of us have, either. Schooling someone so dense on it will take more time than I have today.

  45. MCPO Airdale Says:

    OK, who is sock puppeting as the brainless leftist?

  46. agiledog Says:

    I don’t know, Chief. But they are doing a superb job of it. You have to be pretty bright to parrot leftist gibberish and not let some hint of reason or intelligence sneak through.


  47. Unions Suck!

    Damn I keep messing that up!

    The governor sucks!

    (psst…put some emotion in it, think of that sweet non union wage you are being paid)

    huh? whut? When do I get my break?

  48. agiledog Says:

    When do I get my break?

    Right now. Here’s your pink slip…

    Gawd, I just love being one of those cruel corporatists. HAHAHAHAHA!

  49. AmericanInsurgent Says:

    The Wisconsin CBA’s are contracts too righ-tea’s. That was my point about Walker cancelling contracts. So, States could cancel charters or refuse to allow registration. Right-wingers hypocritical always. When it comes to Corps suddenly the commerce clause overrides local state regulation. Sorry, you are dead wrong. Corporations are formed under state not federal law.
    You act like incorporation is in the bill of rights. Why do you people (I’m assuming you are humans) defend corporations like they are gifts from God. They’re more like deals with the devil.
    Antitrust law which still prohibits price-fixing and monopolies is no longer being enforced. Before the corporations completely took over the justice department, the government broke up those monopolies all the time. Anti-trust laws encourage competition, which capitalists supposedly want.
    So, despite your horror at the concept of breaking up too big to fail banks, the world wouldn’t end. If I didn’t know better, then I would think these corps must be blowing you

  50. Hotspur Says:

    Notice how wiserbud isn’t posting in this thread.

    Hahahahahaha

  51. AmericanInsurgent Says:

    Can anyone prove that Walker ever said he would do away with collective bargaining for state employees? No, b/c he didn’t; so it was not voted on.
    And, if the governor and a state legislature can cancel existing and/or future CBA’s, then likewise they could vote to refuse to permit BP or Halliburton or any other Racketeering Organization to do business in their state. Again, why wouldn’t a conservative want to protect the local small businesses you claim to love from some immigrant corporation?
    It always cracks me up when self-satisfied, arrogant righties make arguments like that w/o realizing that their arguments are completely inconsistent w/ their “fundamental beliefs.”

  52. MCPO Airdale Says:

    AI needs some artificial intelligence ’cause the “native” stuff ain’t working for him/her/it.

  53. taxed2death Says:

    AI, what exactly do you know of beliefs? Fundamental ones at that?

    Where would this country be without corporations? What makes up the economy that you so vehemently despise, yet remain here enjoying the pleasures and the freedoms that it provides. Face it, despite your hatred of your own life and anyone that has made their mark on this land, you wouldn’t even be sitting on your laptop in your mom’s basement banging away at those little keys trying to sound smart yet, failing miserably.

    The corporation that I own employs families, provides wealth and happiness to those families and provides a service to the community. Describe for me the evil in that?

    When your finished with MJ’s bimmers, my Hummer needs a spit polish.

  54. AmericanInsurgent Says:

    Then there’s RICO that could also be used against corporations even by private citizens.
    There was a time when there were no corporations. In fact, I don’t think Jesus ever approved the concept of corporations. Jesus would not approve of corporations which are created to make profits regardless of the greed and avarice inherent in corporations. Corporations like Massey (coal-mining)or BP make decisions based on profit over safety and their human workers die. But the corporate structure is designed to shield anyone from liability for their reckless actions.


  55. While AI is so busy spouting off about Wisconsin and Governor Walker, I guess he didn’t read about Idaho and Ohio (or was it Iowa?) eliminating collective bargaining rights in their states with nary a televised protest.

    No, what the unions and their hacks were upset about in Wisconsin was the fact that the bill passed by the state – legally, I might add – did away with the unions’ ability to unilaterally deduct dues from teachers’ pay through the mechanisms of payroll deduction.

    Teachers now have the OPTION to decide if they want to be represented by the union. If they choose that option, they pay their dues and they do so with a check paid directly to the union. If they don’t want to be in the union, then they take their chances and they don’t pay their dues. Either way, the state is out of the business of being the union’s collection agency.

    Plenty of other concessions were attempted in good faith to bring the fleebaggers back to the state, and they rejected EVERY SINGLE OFFER, because THAT was the sticking point. The unions want their money, plain and simple.


  56. And AI seems to forget that these “unions” are for PUBLIC employees, not private ones. Even FDR and LaGuardia – champions of the unions – agreed that public employees should NEVER be allowed to unionize….

    Our government’s first priority is to the interests of her citizenry, not the people who are employed on their behalf and paid with their hard-earned tax dollars.

    BTW – how old are you, AI, and what do you do for a living?

  57. agiledog Says:

    There was a time when there were no corporations.

    And there was a time when there was no electricity. Progress! (Which is distinctly different from Progressives!)

  58. agiledog Says:

    You (AmericanIdiot) have clearly never been in the management of a corporation, or studied economics. You have no clue about what you saying.

    Go back to your drum circle, please.

  59. Revvy Says:

    Hey guys! I came up with a new drinking game!

    Every time AI says some form of the word ‘corporate’ you take a drink.

    … best not to make your drink too strong though.

  60. Paulitics Says:

    I don’t think Wiserbud is smart enough to write such dumb shit.

  61. AmericanInsurgent Says:

    TexasTeresa, WTF? Out of what hole did you pull this:
    While AI is so busy spouting off about Wisconsin and Governor Walker, I guess he didn’t read about Idaho and Ohio (or was it Iowa?) eliminating collective bargaining rights in their states with nary a televised protest.

    I know more about Ohio than you apparently do b/c it was on TV and Ohio Teapublicans rigged the 2 committee votes by removing members of their own party who were voting no and replacing them with yes Repug votes. Glad you brought it up. But quit making shit up.

  62. Paulitics Says:

    AI, I’m curious… do you have a job?

  63. Paulitics Says:

    **crickets chirping**

    I thought so.


  64. The Governor is a fag!
    The Governor is a fag!
    The Governor is a fag!

    Kill anyone who disagrees with me!

    The Governor is a fag!
    The Governor is a fag!
    The Governor is a fag!

    Kill all Republicans!

    Slash his tires! He drives a Toyota!

    The Governor is a fag!
    The Governor is a fag!
    The Governor is a fag!

    Kill the violent teabaggers!!!!!!!!!11111111eeek!

  65. MCPO Airdale Says:

    AI gets paid minimum wage to hold up signs printed by International A.N.S.W.E.R. or the SEIU. Hey, it gets him out of his mom’s basement once in awhile!


  66. AI, I don’t recall seeing the level of vehemence over the Ohio vote that we’ve been seeing in Wisconsin. I believe that was the tenor of my comment above.

    And BOTH states passed their legislation, correct? I don’t recall seeing any of the usual bottom-feeding “grievance celebrities” at either of those state courthouses, so why Wisconsin and not the other two? It seems to me that the specifics of this bill are what is making the unions so upset.

    But have no fear – if the unions keep this behavior up, the people and corporations who can afford to WILL leave these states – it’s already happened with quite a few. And the people who are left won’t be able to support the public unions’ demands anymore, because all of the taxpayers will have gone to states which support a free market.

    Then all of this will be a moot point. Unions are basically a microcosm of the socialist/communist economic model, and they are failing miserably for that very reason. You can rant against that all you want to, but the evidence is there for all to see.

  67. AmericanInsurgent Says:

    Again w/ the lies about FDR. Are you just spouting Rovian talking points or did you actually try to find and read the letter? FDR opposed strikes by government workers but he recognized that they had a right to collective bargaining:
    “The desire of Government employees for fair and adequate pay, reasonable hours of work, safe and suitable working conditions, development of opportunities for advancement, facilities for fair and impartial consideration and review of grievances, and other objectives of a proper employee relations policy, IS BASICALLY NO DIFFERENT from that of employees in private industry. Organization on their part to present their views on such matters is both natural and logical, but meticulous attention should be paid to the special relationships and obligations of public servants to the public itself and to the Government.
    All Government employees should realize that the process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service. It has its distinct and insurmountable limitations when applied to public personnel management.”

    http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=15445#axzz1Gc3fA5DY

    I’m assuming you did not read the letter. If you did read it, then shame on you for spreading lies.
    This is what is so disturbing about the right wing of the Teapublican party. Some Fox Fiction talking head tells you that FDR said something but they don’t tell you where this FDR statement can be found and you don’t bother checking it out but instead you go ahead and parrot the outright lies over the right wing blogosphere and Faux News.
    Now, I know that if some teabagger is quoting FDR being in favor of screwing workers, then 99.9% of the time it’s not even a quote out of context; it’s a bald-faced lie. And, no matter how many times we prove that the right wing is falsifying evidence and history again you righties recklessly spread the lie.
    Is it any wonder there is gridlock when the Teapublicans are divorced from reality?

  68. Paulitics Says:

    AI, I repeat: Do you have a job?


  69. Here ya go, AI:
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ac/20110309/tr_ac/8024284_idaho_passes_law_to_curb_unions_collective_bargaining_rights

    Looks like Michigan and Nevada are next in line, with not much protest from their citizenry. Incidentally, I seriously doubt that many of the people showing up to protest are actually Wisconsin residents.

    “Astroturfing” is a uniquely Democrat construct. When Republicans protest, they pay their own way to get there….


  70. AI, I believe that YOU are the one who isn’t reading FDR’s letter – everything that I said is spelled out in that letter which you so kindly copied for the rest of the class.

    He says that while the DESIRE for collective bargaining may be there:

    ….but meticulous attention should be paid to the special relationships and obligations of public servants to the public itself and to the Government.
    All Government employees should realize that the process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, CANNOT be transplanted into the public service. It has its distinct and insurmountable limitations when applied to public personnel management.”

    Thanks for playing our game today, Skippy – I’m sure we have some nice parting gifts in the back….

  71. xbradtc Says:

    AI, did you even read what you just posted?

  72. Paulitics Says:

    AI, do you have a job?


  73. It is not democratic for republicans to pass laws!

    It is Unconstitutional!

    Hitler!!!!!!!!!!!

    It is Hateful to be so Partisan!

  74. Paulitics Says:

    AI, I ask again: do you have a job?


  75. I forgot! It’s Spring Break for many High Schools and Colleges this week! No doubt AI is sitting home this week with no booze and no girls to shag and lots of time on his hands.

    I’m guessing he is either an undergrad in one of the “usual” dead-end majors, a perpetual grad student, or a professor in a dead-end major….

  76. scottw Says:

    We also need to know how many cats AI has.

  77. Jay in Ames Says:

    Damn, AI, don’t you hate it when you get beat over the head with the bat you brought to the game?

    By the way, Iowa hasn’t passed it yet. It was passed by the House (GOP control), but it will probably die in the Senate (Dem control). Might as well be a stickler for the details, since your existing facts tend to be turned against you.

    Beat over the head with an FDR quote. Ouch, that’s gotta sting. Wonder if we can find some Woodrow Wilson crap to throw at you, that would really sting!

  78. AmericanInsurgent Says:

    Typical rightard teabagger insults. Just change the subject b/c you are too lazy to even think about how idiotic and immature you sound.
    I can actually read and google for the truth. You have failed to demonstrate either ability yet you are questioning my employment.
    Do you support Michelle Bachmann or Palin? Both, one for vp and one for prez. There’s time before the 2012 election even for dimwits like you to learn analytical thinking. Then you won’t blindly follow politicians who have no knowledge of American History. What you tea party folks need is a liberal arts education. What’s especially amusing about the tea party is that they seem to think they are recreating the Boston Tea Party but have no clue that the revolution started because of taxation w/o representation, which is nothing like the present day. And it took you people 8 years to realize how stupid and irresponsible Junior had been in waging 2 wars and lowering taxes. I was rebelling against these deficits as soon as the tax cuts were enacted by Junior. Where were you?


  79. It is Bushes fault!!!!!!

    Halliburton!!!!

    Teabaggers are raaaacist!

  80. Paulitics Says:

    Do you have a job, AI?

    (There. That should do it.)

  81. mare Says:

    “We also need to know how many cats AI has.”

    Scott, don’t hurt me.

  82. Paulitics Says:

    Mare, does AI know that he answers my question you’ll show him your bewbs?

  83. Paulitics Says:

    that he answers = that if he answers

  84. Jay in Ames Says:

    I was rebelling against these deficits as soon as the tax cuts were enacted by Junior. Where were you?

    We’ve been saying he’s spent too much all along, kind AI. At least we can agree on that.

    Now, his shrinking of other parts of the government had also resulted in the largest collection of taxes in history. Yes, smaller tax rates, more revenue. It’s a fact, look it up.

    Now Walker (and Kasich, and Daniels, etc) are attacking the problem at the other end, spending. That’s what collective bargaining has resulted in, expanded spending that the states can no longer afford. That’s the part we agreed on, spending too much, remember that?

    See, we can agree, once you drop the name calling.

  85. mare Says:

    If he’s damn lucky!

  86. mare Says:

    I think AI is a woman though, really. Very dramatic and emotional.

  87. Jay in Ames Says:

    Yay, bewbs, we get to see bewbs!

    Answer the question, AI! Cause and effect, baby.

  88. mare Says:

    Would someone fix my punctuation? Thanks.

  89. Paulitics Says:

    AI, answer my question: Do you have a job?


  90. AI, you have any dope? All this screaming is really hurting my voice.

    Socialists of the the world unite!

    Solidarity with the people!

    Che is my hero!!!!!

  91. Jay in Ames Says:

    He’s busy digging up “facts” at Media Matters and Crooks and Liars.

    Hint for AI: if you use site: in your search with your website of choice, you can narrow your searches. You wouldn’t want any actual facts creeping into your search results.

  92. MCPO Airdale Says:

    AI – Do you have a job? Do you pay taxes. What were the yearly deficits 2000-2005? What have they been from 2006 – present?

    C’mon, let’s see that Google-fu and analytical mind at work!


  93. I think AI is a woman though, really. Very dramatic and emotional.

    Naaaahhh. He’s just that way because he thinks it will score him points with liberal chicks. You know, because he’s so sensitive and caring and stuff.

  94. Jay in Ames Says:

    He’s just that way because he thinks it will score him points with liberal chicks.

    A shower works, too. But they are scarce when you are camping in the WI capitol in Madison, aren’t they?


  95. You’re making this too easy, AI.

    Just change the subject b/c you are too lazy to even think about how idiotic and immature you sound….
    ….Do you support Michelle Bachmann or Palin? Both, one for vp and one for prez.

    Excuse me, weren’t we talking about collective bargaining rights for public sector employees? You seem to have changed the subject on us, AI.

    What’s especially amusing about the tea party is that they seem to think they are recreating the Boston Tea Party but have no clue that the revolution started because of taxation w/o representation…

    No, what’s especially amusing is that you don’t know where the TEA party got its name:
    Taxed
    Enough
    Already

    Keep up, son.

    I can actually read and google for the truth.

    Might I suggest that you make friends with Bing instead?….

  96. Hotspur Says:

    Liberal chicks like Rachel Madcow, Rosie O’Donnel, and Whoopie Goldberg?

    You’re right. AI is a chick.

  97. Paulitics Says:

    AI, I have to leave soon, so in case I forgot to ask — Do you have a job?


  98. Capitalism Sucks!

    Capitalists are greedy pigs!

    We demand more money!

  99. scottw Says:

    “started because of taxation w/o representation, which is nothing like the present day.”

    Lets see, taxation without representation would be like…..

    – Ramming Obamacare through against the will of the people
    – Taking GM from private investors, and handing it over to the unions
    – Taking taxpayer money, filtering it directly to the unions and calling it stimulus
    – Using the EPA to try and regulate carbon against the will of the majority

    “We must pass the bill so that we can find out what’s in it”


  100. Typical rightard teabagger insults.

    Hmmm.
    According to “Urban Dictionary”:

    Rightard: 1) Compound of right & retard.

    Teabagger: 1. n. A man that dips his scrotum and testicles into the mouth of another person. (as if dipping a tea bag into hot water)

    Which is the greater insult – to be called a teabagger or a teabaggee?

    (Suffice it to say that it is beneath contempt for someone to reference a retarded person when hurling insults)

  101. Revvy Says:

    What you tea party folks need is a liberal arts education.

    Dammit AI, you owe me a new keyboard, I was drinking iced tea when I read that.
    That is possibly the snobbiest, most hilariously dead-wrong statement I’ve EVER read. Because yanno, what the job market is just ACHING for right now is MORE college grads with a completely fucking useless Liberal Arts Degree, whose only skill is talking eloquently about nothing at all (Hey! Who does that sound like?). Hell, one of the selling points of my college was that its LA department was almost non-existent.


  102. What you tea party folks need is a liberal arts education.

    I was right!

    I’m guessing he is either an undergrad in one of the “usual” dead-end majors, a perpetual grad student, or a professor in a dead-end major….

    What do I win, Don Pardo?


  103. Obamacare will remove pestilence from society then all the enlightened will rise up and live in rainbows and moonbeams!

    Obama is so Hot! and he is super smart and dreamy.

    Who needs Democracy? Obama will lead us the the pure pr omiced land where we will all commune at one with Gaia.

    Stomp on those pestilent capitalist necks Obama!


  104. (Suffice it to say that it is beneath contempt for someone to reference a retarded person when hurling insults)

    Remember, his “spiritual leader” bowls like he is in the “Special Olympics”.


  105. What do I win, Don Pardo?

    A mismatched set of Amelia Earhart luggage, a case of Rice-A-Roni, and this lovely 8 x 10 photograph of a BRAND NEW CAR!!!!!!!, equipped with California emissions.

    Thanks for playing along at home.


  106. Remember, his “spiritual leader” bowls like he is in the “Special Olympics”.

    My daughter attends a school for kids with Down syndrome which has a Special Olympics bowling team – they ALL score better than Dear Leader did (without the gutter bumpers, I might add)….


  107. They found Amelia Earhart’s luggage?


  108. They found Amelia Earhart’s luggage?

    It never made it one the plane. Stupid baggage handlers.


  109. Lemme guess – they worked for the union?


  110. Ok I give up this union crap really doesn’t pay very well. And there are all these fat hairy guys that scare me, I am out of here!

  111. Paulitics Says:

    AI, if you’ve finished your Maypo by now, please answer this question: Do you have a job?


  112. It’s been over an hour – I guess AI’s mommy isn’t going to let him go back into the pool…

  113. scottw Says:

    Maybe AI is right. We should give Obama some credit, in two short years he has managed to

    – secure the borders
    – close Gitmo
    – create peace in the Middle East
    – provide our energy independence
    – end the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy
    – end the war in Iraq
    – create or save 237 million jobs
    – usher in a new era of transparency
    – cut the deficit

    Solid B+

  114. AmericanInsurgent Says:

    Hey Rightard Paulapricks, you’re obviously very confused. You hypocrites don’t care about jobs?
    The real question is did you graduate from HS?
    I’m sorry some corporatist friend of yours outsourced your job as a spellchecker for the Urban Dictionary

    Hey geniuses, Rightard does not refer to people who are mentally retarded. The spelling of the word and the context in which it was used obviously refers to you being politically challenged from the right wing of the political spectrum and that no facts can cure you. I think your condition is advanced enough to entitle you to protection under the ADA

    The Urban Dictionary may as well have your photograph in the margin: “Someone who[se] right-wing political ideology clouds their judg[m]ent” [I had to correct the spelling]

    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Rightard

    Could you please buy a t-shirt to clearly identify yourself so I know it is useless to try to clear up your right-wing clouded ideology?

    http://www.zazzle.com/custom_urban_dictionary_tshirt_light-235245270191392084

  115. scottw Says:

    What are you talking about?

    Obama created millions of jobs. Everyone has one.

  116. Revvy Says:

    Uh oh. AI finally snapped.

  117. scottw Says:

    AI is quoting the dictionary?

    Insurgent: –noun
    1. a person who rises in forcible opposition to lawful authority, especially a person who engages in armed resistance to a government or to the execution of its laws; rebel.
    2. a member of a section of a political party that revolts against the methods or policies of the party.

    BIG SIS! WHERE ARE YOU?

  118. AmericanInsurgent Says:

    1.Do you believe Ronald Reagan was one of our greatest president?
    Did you vote for George W Bush, aka Junior, more than once?
    Do you believe that the federal budget can be balanced with the Bush/Obama tax cuts in place?
    Do you believe that Social Security is a big factor in the deficit?
    Did you believe that the Sleazeboat Veterans were telling the truth about John Kerry’s distinguished naval career?
    Did you believe that Junior was not AWOL from the Texas Air National Guard when he failed to report for duty in Alabama?
    Do you believe President Obama is not a US Citizen?
    Do you believe Obama is a Muslim?
    Do you believe Sarah Palin is qualified to be president?
    Do you believe Michelle Bachmann is qualified to be president?


  119. Careful, AI – your bias is showing….

  120. scottw Says:

    Yes
    No, only Democrats vote more than once.
    Yes
    Yes
    God Yes!
    Yes
    Nobody knows. Why is it a secret? Where are the college record?
    Who cares
    If Obama is anybody is
    If Obama is anybody is

    So, what do you do for a living?


  121. The real question is did you graduate from HS?

    Valedictorian of a class of 350 in a HS filled with the children of Scientists and Engineers.

    Next question?

  122. Revvy Says:

    In no particular order:

    -The meager amount the government would make by raising taxes on the rich would do almost nothing to help the deficit, so yes, I do think that during a recession we should leave them alone so they can continue putting their money into the economy rather than the government coffers.

    -Social Security is a boat anchor around the deficit’s neck, and if you can’t see that then you must have problems with basic math.

    …. that’s all I got as the rest of your questions are either entirely irrelevant or matters of opinion that cannot be definitively proved one way or the other. Unless a held belief is provably wrong, you can’t hold it up as evidence of idiocy – trying to do so just makes you look like a douche.

  123. scottw Says:

    Mr. Rebel should really let us know what he does for a living.

    Oh, and the number of cats owned. That’s important.

  124. scottw Says:

    Look like?

  125. AmericanInsurgent Says:

    1.Do you believe Ronald Reagan was one of our greatest president?
    2. Did you vote for George W Bush, aka Junior, more than once?
    3. Do you believe that the federal budget can be balanced with the Bush/Obama tax cuts in place?
    4. Do you believe that Social Security is a big factor in the deficit?
    5. Did you believe that the Sleazeboat Veterans were telling the truth about John Kerry’s distinguished naval career?
    6. Did you believe that Junior was not AWOL from the Texas Air National Guard when he failed to report for duty in Alabama?
    7. Do you believe President Obama is not a US Citizen?
    8. Do you believe Obama is a Muslim?
    9. Do you believe Sarah Palin is qualified to be president?
    10. Do you believe Michelle Bachmann is qualified to be president?
    Bonus question: Do you believe that Saddam Hussein had WMD’s and/or that Saddam Hussein was connected to 9/11 and/or that Junior did not lie about his reasons for invading and occupying Iraq?
    If you answered yes to 6 to 7 of these questions, then you are a certified rightard.
    If you answered yes to 8 or 9 of these questions, then you are hopelessy out of touch with reality and qualify for rightard disability.
    If you answered yes to all 10 of these questions, then you are probably a writer for Glenn Beck’s TV show?
    If you answered yes to the bonus question, then you have not been paying attention to the history of the leadup to the Iraq war?

  126. scottw Says:

    If you live in your Moms basement, have no friends,
    then you are hopelessy out of touch with reality and qualify for disability.

    No worries AI, we will pay for it.

  127. Mrs. Peel Says:

    Sadly, I turned 18 four days too late to vote in 2000. My parents voted for GWB 4 times (8 if they voted in all the primaries; I’m not sure if they did).

    2nd out of 613 with an IB diploma (which is a [stringent] liberal arts education, by the way). Cum laude in biomedical engineering with a minor in electrical engineering. Master’s in electrical engineering. How about you, AI?

    I wouldn’t have brought this up because I tend to think that grades and degrees, even technical ones, are largely a measure of how effectively one plays the education system’s game and not a true measure of one’s intelligence or education, but you did ask if we graduated high school. So I answered.


  128. Hey geniuses, Rightard does not refer to people who are mentally retarded.
    Really? Then how did the word come about? Don’t be deliberately obtuse – it’s quite unbecoming in one who is attempting to appear erudite.

    I think your condition is advanced enough to entitle you to protection under the ADA
    Again with what you perceive to be an insult? You really need to try harder, cupcake –


  129. Oh, I get it now – AI’s little “quiz” is a verbatim copy of the one that he took in his Social Studies class in a Wisconsin public school.

    That explains so much….


  130. High School? 8th out of 125. It would have been 4th if you filtered out the ones in the top ten who took the fluff classes.

    College? University of Michigan, B.A., Political Science, with honors.

    Graduate School? J.D., 2001, cum laude, LL.M., 2005.


  131. I wonder if AI gets to stay up late during Spring Break?

  132. AmericanInsurgent Says:

    It’s really none of your business what my profession is and I think it’s pretty stupid and offensive to ask anyone whether they still have a job after George W. Bush and his corporatist masters ruined our economy by outsourcing millions of good jobs, by giving nonbid defense contracts to the over 100,000 mercenaries we are paying to perform military duties in Iraq and Afghanistan, and by failing to regulate the too big to fail banks as they gambled away the savings, investments, and pensions of the People on mortgage-backed securities and derivatives and credit default swaps.
    It’s not funny. I’m fine but the economy is still horrible and millions of people are unemployed through no fault of their own.
    You should be asking John Boehner where are the jobs?

  133. scottw Says:

    “You should be asking John Boehner where are the jobs?”

    What? Obama has been focused on this issue “like a laser” for two years.

    Sorry it didn’t trickle down to you.

  134. Revvy Says:

    I take that as a ‘no, I’m not employed’ then, AI.

    As for me, since we’re listing academics, I don’t remember what my rank was in my school – I know it was lower than it COULD have been since I refused to jump through the stupid hoops teachers set up to make sure how much you learned counted for as little of your final grade as possible. I was in the 90th percentile for SATs though, go me.

    I’m finishing up college now – Illustration, not exactly a heavy lifting degree intelligence-wise, but it’s what I enjoy and I intend to work hard at it to make a living.


  135. Still in high school….

  136. scottw Says:

    Obama created 2.3 million jobs.

    It’s nice to know that people like AI are so much better off than they were a few years ago.


  137. No longer at work, so now I have the time for your other nonsense.

    The Wisconsin CBA’s are contracts too righ-tea’s. That was my point about Walker cancelling contracts. So, States could cancel charters or refuse to allow registration. Right-wingers hypocritical always. When it comes to Corps suddenly the commerce clause overrides local state regulation. Sorry, you are dead wrong. Corporations are formed under state not federal law.

    I realize that there is a technical distinction that your finely developed sense of nuance probably is incapable of grokking, but the contracts in Wisconsin have not been voided, just the priviledge to collectively bargain. Teachers, police, and firefighters still have their jobs, and will still get paid,and still have benefits, but lose the right to extort incredibly generous benefit and pension packages from their “friends and neighbors” by means of strikes, especially when their “friends and neighbors” do not enjoy anywhere near the degree of job security and overall compensation that these government workers do.

    States can attempt to “cancel charters” (or Articles of Incorporation for those living in the 20th or 21st Centuries) by legislative acts, but in so doing will destroy the economic prospects of their states for decades to come, because no single investor, or aggregate group of investors will want to make the investments that corporations large and small do in a climate where the protections of the law are arbitrarily withdrawn, and the predictablity of result rendered by rule of law becomes inherently unpredictable.

    As for state authority over corporations, you are correct in recognizing that in the US, they are a creature of state statute. However, those statutes are largely perfunctory, and used as ways to generate revenue for states. Approval is not on a case by case basis, and regulation of a specific business function is usually accomplished by code or statute that is separate from statutes that control how corporations, partneships and LLCs generally operate. Foreign business entities are frequently recognized under these statutes, but not directly contolled by them…again, largely as a revenue rather than a regulatory function, and if an entity is of foreign (meaning not US origin) then yes, the federal government is the primary regulatory authority.

  138. scottw Says:

    Killed it dead.


  139. It’s really none of your business what my profession is

    And its none of your business whether any of us have graduated from high school, especially when you ask in as condescending a manner as possible, but hey, many of us ponied up as part of the price of sitting down at the table. You don’t want to play along? Then don’t bother those of us sitting at the adult table. We don’t really have the time for wannabes who didn’t come to play.

  140. americaninsurgent Says:

    If you are all so smart (I don’t need to brag), then where’s the intelligence now? I received a top-notch liberal arts education and learned to think and write analytically. I also learned to use research, preferably a primary source, like FDR’s letter proving that the right wing talking point claiming FDR was opposed to collective bargaining for public employees. The teabagger governors are following the same BS plan to blame their deficits on public employees. If you think that teachers, police officers, firemen, probation officers, prosecutors, public defenders, prison guards, etc are the reason for these state budget problems in every state, then prove it. These repug governors are giving huge tax breaks to corporations. Corporations are making record profits b/c they have outsourced more and more decent paying private sector jobs to countries where they can pay much less, give no benefits, avoid unions, and have no safety regulations or pollution standards. But teabaggers ignore this massive attack on the middle class and unions.


  141. Killed it dead.

    Double tap. Just to be sure.


  142. I also learned to use research, preferably a primary source, like FDR’s letter proving that the right wing talking point claiming FDR was opposed to collective bargaining for public employees.

    I can only surmise that the basket-weaving course is what saved you from failing altogether, because your reading comprehension sucks. Do we have to actually take the letter line by line to demonstrate how little you understand?

  143. Revvy Says:

    AI – We weren’t bragging, you were the one who asked for scholarly credentials, and we provided them.

    You got bitten in the ass by your own line of question; If you were so good at writing persuasively, you’d know that one of the first rules is to never ask a question you don’t know the answer to – 9 times out of 10 it will destroy your point, as we just did.


  144. I see that AI STILL hasn’t read FDR’s letter.

    Go back up to the earlier discussion and read it through again, then read the comments. Then you can come back and discuss it with the rest of the class, who most definitely COMPREHEND what they have read.

    If you think that teachers, police officers, firemen, probation officers, prosecutors, public defenders, prison guards, etc are the reason for these state budget problems in every state, then prove it.

    If you have the top-notch research and analytic skills that you claim to have, then perhaps you should come up with a cogent argument that this ISN’T the case.

    These repug governors are giving huge tax breaks to corporations.

    Gee, maybe that’s because those corporations will bring in MUCH more tax revenue to their states than if they went to another state. BTW, corporations don’t pay taxes – if you did your research, you would know that.

    I received a top-notch liberal arts education and learned to think and write analytically.

    And still no mention of your job….


  145. The teabagger governors are following the same BS plan to blame their deficits on public employees. If you think that teachers, police officers, firemen, probation officers, prosecutors, public defenders, prison guards, etc are the reason for these state budget problems in every state, then prove it.

    Riddle me this, oh liberul arts geneass: These workers in Wisconsin now have to pay small percentages of their health care benefit costs (you know, the part where you get the bill for the insurance, regardless of whether or not it is used), and to contribute a very meager percentage towards funding their pension plans. Who pays the rest?
    And the cost of that health insurance? Its been climbing every year for years, so to the taxpayers are now on the hook for costs that rise every single year, at a rate that usually outstrips inflation, and that is typically difficult to predict with accuracy. So this equation looks like this:

    Taxpayer $, which is a finite resource, minus unpredictable, but increasing annual costs in the form of health care insurance premiums, minus growing and typically underfunded pension obligations = budgetary problems…and that is before consideration of variables such as shrinking tax revenues because of shrinking business presence and increased unemployment. Taxpayer revenue is not ineleastic, but its elasticity is limited, as many states have learned.

    These repug governors are giving huge tax breaks to corporations. Corporations are making record profits b/c they have outsourced more and more decent paying private sector jobs to countries where they can pay much less, give no benefits, avoid unions, and have no safety regulations or pollution standards. But teabaggers ignore this massive attack on the middle class and unions.

    Some do, and some don’t, but it is meager compensation for deacades of Democratic governors and legislatures treating them as the cash registers necessary to fund a whole host of functions the government had no business being in, all so they could consolidate power through the perpetuation of the dependency of those they were allegedly “assisting”.

    I could give less than a fart in a tornado for unions. I had a front row seat to watch them destroy the domestic auto industry, which did far more to hurt the middle class than any proposed action of the current crop of republican governors.


  146. BTW, corporations don’t pay taxes – if you did your research, you would know that.

    Yes, they do.

    C-corporations are taxed on dollar one at a rate of 35%. The remaining profits are then taxed again in the hands of the shareholders. thus leading to the legitimate complaint that such corporations have their profits taxed twice.

    S-Coporations do not pay taxes as an entity, but the profits are taxed in the hands of the shareholders.


  147. And still no mention of your job….

    He’s the hardest working barista at the local Starbuck’s. Just ask him. Oh, right…


  148. Corporations are making record profits b/c they have outsourced more and more decent paying private sector jobs to countries where they can pay much less, give no benefits, avoid unions, and have no safety regulations or pollution standards.

    And your point is? These are PRIVATE companies, and they can do whatever they want to do – including finding the most optimum environment to make a maximum profit. If that means taking their business to a country that won’t break their back with regulations, then so be it. You want these companies to come back to the US? Make it worth their while.

    If you think you can do a better job running a corporation, then by all means, feel free to do so. I think you would find that you begin to understand these companies’ rationale rather quickly.

    BTW, many of those exorbitant profits that you are whining about are used to invest in these companies so that they can expand and offer more jobs to more people, who will then be paying taxes, purchasing goods and services in their communities, etc.

    See how it works now?


  149. BTW, corporations don’t pay taxes – if you did your research, you would know that.
    Yes, they do.

    I stand corrected – thanks for the clarification!


  150. And your point is? These are PRIVATE companies, and they can do whatever they want to do – including finding the most optimum environment to make a maximum profit. If that means taking their business to a country that won’t break their back with regulations, then so be it. You want these companies to come back to the US? Make it worth their while.

    Not bad, but the better argument is that these corporations, and their boards of directors would be legally liable if they did not fulfill their duty to maximize shareholder value in every manner availble to them, which is something that our liberul arts geeneass is fully aware of, since he is so damn smart, and all.


  151. That’s why you studied the law, and I studied engineering….

  152. Mrs. Peel Says:

    That just proves that the law is eeeeeevil, BiW.


  153. I know, Mrs. Peel. I know. 😉

    Emotion trumps all. Reason. Logic. Law.

    I hope your condition isn’t giving you too much discomfort.

  154. americaninsurgent Says:

    I think you claimed to be a lawyer. You said you would prove your version line by line and the few lines you quoted proved I am right. You must be a corporate lawyer.
    What does this sentence mean to you counselor: “ORGANIZATIONS OF GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES [PUBLIC EMPLOYEE UNIONS] have a logical place in Government affairs.” He means unions and you know it!
    Next sentence: “The desire of Government employees for fair and adequate pay, reasonable hours of work, safe and suitable working conditions, development of opportunities for advancement, facilities for fair and impartial consideration and review of grievances, and other objectives of a proper employee relations policy, IS BASICALLY NO DIFFERENT FROM THAT OF EMPLOYEES IN PRIVATE INDUSTRY.” Gee, he is talking about the terms of a collective bargaining agreement and he says it is no different from private industry employees.
    Next sentence: “ORGANIZATION [UNIONS]ON THEIR PART to present their views on such matters is both natural and logical, but meticulous attention should be paid to the special relationships and obligations of public servants to the public itself and to the Government.” I don’t see anything there to support the right wing talking point. He recognized that organization (UNION) is both natural and logical. Public employees have special relationships and obligations. Nothing there to support you.
    Next sentence: “all GOVERNMENT EMPLYEES should realize that THE PROCESS OF COLLECTIVE BARGAING, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service.” FDR is again recognizing the right to collective bargaining, but he is saying it will be different than usual collective bargaining. If you think this sentence says FDR rejects collective bargaining for public employees, then you are dreaming.

  155. americaninsurgent Says:

    Next few sentences: “It has its distinct and insurmountable limitations when applied to public personnel management. The very nature and purposes of Government make it impossible for administrative officials to represent fully or to bind THE EMPLOYER IN MUTUAL DISCUSSIONS WITH GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEE ORGANIZATIONS [again, the PUBLIC EMPLOYEE UNIONS]. The employer is the whole people, who speak by means of laws enacted by their representatives in Congress. Accordingly, administrative officials and employees alike are governed and guided, and in many instances restricted, by laws which establish policies, procedures, or rules in personnel matters.” This is a logical and realistic explanation and acknowledgement of the obvious: the employer is the people and the government officials negotiating with government employee organizations (UNIONS).

  156. Mrs. Peel Says:

    I’m doing great, BiW. Thanks!

    AI, there are a lot of important words and phrases like “limitations” and “cannot be transplanted” and “restricted” that you are ignoring.


  157. Next sentence: “all GOVERNMENT EMPLYEES should realize that THE PROCESS OF COLLECTIVE BARGAING, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service.”

    Try changing the emphasis on that quote, will you?

    “All government employees SHOULD REALIZE that the process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, CANNOT BE TRANSPLANTED INTO THE PUBLIC SERVICE”

    You conveniently left out the last part of that quotation:
    “…It has its distinct and INSURMOUNTABLE LIMITATIONS when applied to public personnel management.”

    I do believe that THIS sentence says that “FDR rejects collective bargaining for public employees”….

  158. americaninsurgent Says:

    In the next paragraph, FDR is rejecting a strike as a tactic for public employee unions: “Particularly, I want to emphasize my conviction that militant tactics have no place in the FUNCTIONS OF ANY ORGANIZATION OF GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES [UNIONS—UNIONS—UNIONS]. Upon employees in the Federal service rests the obligation to serve the whole people, whose interests and welfare require orderliness and continuity in the conduct of Government activities. This obligation is paramount. Since their own services have to do with the functioning of the Government, A STRIKE OF PUBLIC EMPLOYEES [UNIONS STRIKE!!!] manifests nothing less than an intent on their part to prevent or obstruct the operations of Government until their demands are satisfied. Such action, looking toward the paralysis of Government by those who have sworn to support it, is unthinkable and intolerable. It is, therefore, with a feeling of gratification that I have noted in the CONSTITUTION OF THE NATIONAL FEDERATION OF FEDERAL EMPLOYEES [THE UNION IS AGREEING THAT THEY WILL NOT STRIKE] the provision that “under no circumstances shall this Federation engage in or support strikes against the United States Government.” OK EXPLAIN TO ALL OF US WHERE IN THIS PARAGRAPH FDR REJECTS COLLECTIVE BARGAINING.
    FDR is thanking the Union for agreeing not to strike.
    The title of the August 16, 1937 letter proves I am right: “Letter on the Resolution of Federation of Federal Employees Against Strikes in Federal Service.”

    http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=15445#axzz1Gc3fA5DY

    Once again the teabaggers are lying. This letter does not reject the right of public employees unions to collectively bargain. Why do you have to lie like this!!!

  159. MCPO Airdale Says:

    AI – Explain to me why, in 2011, most federal employees cannot engage in collective bargaining. Now, explain to me why teachers in Madison, Wisconsin have more “rights” than those federal employees.


  160. I think you claimed to be a lawyer.

    No, I said I have a JD and an LLM. You claimed I am a lawyer, and thus made one of your first correct assumptions all day. You may now have a cookie.

    You said you would prove your version line by line

    No, I said the following:
    I can only surmise that the basket-weaving course is what saved you from failing altogether, because your reading comprehension sucks. Do we have to actually take the letter line by line to demonstrate how little you understand?

    Since you seem to have trouble with the concept, that was an invitation to help you with the difficult parts. You have just demonstrated why such assistance was necessary.

    You must be a corporate lawyer.

    What a clever boy! Here is a second cookie. You better save it for later, lest Nanny Michelle get worked into a lather over you becoming obese.

    As for your attempt to interpret the letter, lets just cut to the important parts, shall we?

    All Government employees should realize that the process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service.

    In other words, what makes collective bargaining collective bargaining cannot be employed in labor relations between the federal government and its employees. He doesn’t yet say how, but it is written in a fashion that invites you to read further.

    It has its distinct and insurmountable limitations when applied to public personnel management.

    Again, more telling you that it cannot work in government labor relations.

    The very nature and purposes of Government make it impossible for administrative officials to represent fully or to bind the employer in mutual discussions with Government employee organizations.

    “To represent fully…” Meaning that the assent of the employer cannot ever be taken for granted. “…or to bind the employer…” There is no qualifier on this limiting to what the government officials can and cannot bind the employer to in the way of negotiations. It means that they cannot bind us at all. I realize that that must be a tough nut for your three functioning brain cells to crack, but I didn’t write it. Take it up with FDR.

    The employer is the whole people, who speak by means of laws enacted by their representatives in Congress.

    And these laws are limited only by Constitutional restraints. Stated another way, Congress is free to change these laws, within the confines of what the Constitution permits (unless is a take over of one-sixth of the economy, passed by Democrats, without any Constitutional authority whatsoever, in which case, said law can never, ever be changed, because Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi said so.)

    Accordingly, administrative officials and employees alike are governed and guided, and in many instances restricted, by laws which establish policies, procedures, or rules in personnel matters.

    This is a recognition that the various departments and branches of government are not the final arbiters of the conditions under which their employees will work, and therefore, one of the underlying assumptions of collective bargaining, that everything is negotiable in every negotiation, simply is not true in the instance where both government officials, and government employees, both of whom work for us, sit down to talk about such matters. The ultimate authority is we the taxpayer, as represented by Congress.

    Particularly, I want to emphasize my conviction that militant tactics have no place in the functions of any organization of Government employees.

    Strikes are not acceptable when they are perpetrated by the people who work for us.

    Upon employees in the Federal service rests the obligation to serve the whole people, whose interests and welfare require orderliness and continuity in the conduct of Government activities.

    The ability of our employees to strike is nothing less than officially sanctioned extortion of thems what pays the freight, and isn’t acceptable.

    This obligation is paramount.

    You can propose what you like, but you dictate nothing.

    Since their own services have to do with the functioning of the Government, a strike of public employees manifests nothing less than an intent on their part to prevent or obstruct the operations of Government until their demands are satisfied.

    He describes the extortion that collective bargaining by government workers would result in without using the word.

    Such action, looking toward the paralysis of Government by those who have sworn to support it, is unthinkable and intolerable.

    It isn’t just a job, it is a duty, one that was assumed when they accepted employment, and the ability to place the employees goals before their duties would be an abject failure of government.

    ———————–
    I’ll also point out to you the FDR was very specifically referring to FEDERAL GOVERNMENT employees, largely because those were the government employees that were within his jurisdiction. The states are responsible for determining and addressing the employment policies for their own employees, which they have done.

    And if you can convince yourself that FDR’s statement that unions could collectively bargain with the federal government, albeit absent every hallmark that makes collective bargaining what it is, then perhaps you could tell me which unionized federal employees have collective bargaining.

    Go ahead. I’ll wait.

  161. geoff Says:

    Seems pretty clear to me: FDR says that the Federation has a right to exist and a legitimate role in representing the interests of its members, but that it shouldn’t strike or attempt to negotiate via collective bargaining.

    What sort of collective bargaining do you think he was supporting with this letter?

  162. americaninsurgent Says:

    “Try changing the emphasis on that quote, will you?

    “All government employees SHOULD REALIZE that the process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, CANNOT BE TRANSPLANTED INTO THE PUBLIC SERVICE”

    You conveniently left out the last part of that quotation:
    “…It has its distinct and INSURMOUNTABLE LIMITATIONS when applied to public personnel management.”

    I do believe that THIS sentence says that “FDR rejects collective bargaining for public employees”….”

    So, good YOU BELIEVE it says FDR rejects collective bargaining. Here’s a perfect example of how the teabaggers make stuff up.

    YOU PUT QUOTATION MARKS AROUND YOUR BELIEF THAT: FDR rejects collective bargaining. That was an intentional misrepresentation.
    The sentence actually says: “all GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES should realize that THE PROCESS OF COLLECTIVE BARGAINING, AS USUALLY UNDERSTOOD, cannot be transplanted into the public service.”

    Collective bargaining “as usually understood” That is not a rejection of collective bargaining; it is an acceptance of collective bargaining modified for public employees.

    FDR is quite clear in his complete rejection of the right to strike and is quite clearly thanking this public employees union for agreeing not to strike.

    He write this letter to a federal employees’ union. If the unions not going to strike, then it is going to enter into a collective bargaining agreement.

    You accuse me of taking the sentence about the process of collective bargaining out of context by failing to quote the sentence about “distinct and insurmountable limitations when applied to public personnel management.” I quoted it and also included the following sentence which talks about mutual discussions with the union:
    “The very nature and purposes of Government make it impossible for administrative officials to represent fully or to bind THE EMPLOYER IN MUTUAL DISCUSSIONS WITH GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEE ORGANIZATIONS [again, the PUBLIC EMPLOYEE UNIONS].

    Mutual discussions with the public employee union IS COLLECTIVE BARGAINING.

  163. Mrs. Peel Says:

    YOU PUT QUOTATION MARKS AROUND YOUR BELIEF THAT: FDR rejects collective bargaining. That was an intentional misrepresentation.

    She was quoting YOU at 11:05.

  164. geoff Says:

    …it is an acceptance of collective bargaining modified for public employees.

    And what, exactly, does this “modified” collective bargaining process look like? You’re not allowed to bind the employer in an agreement and you’re not allowed to strike – what exactly would your version of collective bargaining look like?

    Because to me it looks like the null set.

  165. Mrs. Peel Says:

    I quoted it and also included the following sentence which talks about mutual discussions with the union:
    “The very nature and purposes of Government make it impossible for administrative officials to represent fully or to bind THE EMPLOYER IN MUTUAL DISCUSSIONS WITH GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEE ORGANIZATIONS [again, the PUBLIC EMPLOYEE UNIONS].

    Mutual discussions with the public employee union IS COLLECTIVE BARGAINING.

    Sure, and FDR says in that exact same sentence that it’s “impossible for administrative officials to represent fully or to bind the employer” in such discussions. So how are you going to have collective bargaining when the party (the administrative officials) that’s supposed to represent the employer (that’s the taxpayers) and bind them to the decisions that come out of the bargaining can’t, per this very sentence, do so?

  166. Paulitics Says:

    AI, I’m back… did you ever get around to answering this question: Do you have a job?

  167. americaninsurgent Says:

    Let’s assume that FDR was opposed to collective bargaining. So what? It was 1937. The states legislated the right of collective bargaining in the 1950’s–which means that it was the law for 50 or 60 years.
    FDR was in favor of social security. That means nothing to the tea party and your corporatist accomplices. Wall Street can’t wait to gamble with our social security.
    Just think if Junior Inc had privatized SS. Wall street would have bankrupted any private accounts. Great idea. Let’s ignore the fact that wall street bankrupted pension funds just 2-3 years ago and bet that wall street learned its lesson.
    Why aren’t you people worried about the too big to fail corporations? They have proven beyond any doubt that they cannot be trusted. Your hypocrisy on this issue just makes you tools of the TraitoRove, the Koch brothers, and all the corporatists. You’re astroturf

  168. americaninsurgent Says:

    The teabaggers even try to mislead about the origin of the name for your groups: “TEABAGGERS” because you teabaggers were too detached from reality to know the slang meaning of teabagger. My new father tells me to keep up:

    “No, what’s especially amusing is that you don’t know where the TEA party got its name:
    Taxed
    Enough
    Already
    Keep up, son.”

    I appreciate you being so condescending to me while you just keep on lying. Are you really going to deny that the Tea Party was not a reference to the Boston Tea Party? That’s why those teabaggers dressed up like boston tea partiers, right?
    How desperate is it that you even have to lie about where the TEABAGGERS got their name. It was the name Faux News and politicians used to advertise the teabagging of Obama—Ha Ha—the joke was on the teabaggers.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/09/rachel-maddow-ana-marie-c_n_185445.html

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/09/teabag-party-mix-up-video_n_185058.html

  169. xbradtc Says:

    -BTW, corporations don’t pay taxes – if you did your research, you would know that.

    -Yes, they do.

    As a legality, C Corporations, of course, do pay taxes. But as a truism, corporations do not. That is, every dollar they pay in taxes is an expense that they pass along to the consumer.

    There is a sound school of thought that says that taxing corporations is foolish. Remember, corporations that make a profit can only two one of two things with that money:
    1. Pass it along to shareholders as a dividend, or
    2. Reinvest it in the business.

    If the profits are passed to shareholders, it is then taxed via persoanl income tax. Fair enough. But in order to continue growing the economy, we should not tax those dollars that would otherwise be reinvested in the business.

  170. Paulitics Says:

    Now that you’ve conceded that FDR was opposed to collective bargaining for public employees, please answer this question:

    Do you have a job?

  171. Paulitics Says:

    My new father tells me to keep up

    That’s got to be interesting backstory.

  172. xbradtc Says:

    I’m thinking his father is wishing he’d gotten a blowjob the night AI was conceived.

  173. Paulitics Says:

    Well, he said “new father”. I’m thinking some poor schmuck married his mother not knowing about the incoherent little troll living in her basement.

  174. Paulitics Says:

    Did I say, “incoherent little troll”? I meant, “incoherent little troll with a top-notch liberal arts education where he learned to do research!

    Elebenty!!11!!1111!1!

  175. AmericanInsurgent Says:

    Another fine example of teabagger humor based on the failure to read and/or understand.
    Ok, pay attention, one of your fellow baggers tried to explain his understanding of the origins of teabaggers. He came up with some lame fox news rewrite and told me to keep up son. B/c he apparently thought i was from a more modern generation, ie, he must be really old.
    So, I came back with the comment about my father telling me to keep up. And I had video evidence.

  176. xbradtc Says:

    for someone who is so swift to define the meaning of “Tea Party” you sure don’t know the history of the slur “teabagger.”

    You are a loathsome creature. But I suspect you know that.

  177. Sean M. Says:

    Another fine example of teabagger humor based on the failure to read and/or understand.

    Sez the guy who COMPLETELY misunderstood what FDR was saying about collective bargaining for federal employees.

    (Note that to this very day, federal employees do not have collective bargaining rights.)

  178. AmericanInsurgent Says:

    I’m thinking that you boys are into teabagging. Go for it; your gay sex life is your business.

    The next time you say something intelligent or something that is not an asinine immature insult will be around the time Michelle Bachmann quits saying things that prove that she looney tunes

    Now there’s a woman who is confident and arrogant about —-I’m really not sure why she’s confident or arrogant b/c she is one clueless beeitch But then you probably think that she is hot And you probably also think Palin is hot too
    It’s obviously some kind of evil conservative spell b/c those of us on the human side of the political spectrum find women like these two and Ann Coulter to be skanks. Hell, Coulter has a big adam’s apple. Gross

  179. Sean M. Says:

    I’m thinking that you boys are into teabagging. Go for it; your gay sex life is your business.

    Progressive tolerance at its finest.

    Now there’s a woman who is confident and arrogant about —-I’m really not sure why she’s confident or arrogant b/c she is one clueless beeitch

    And a feminist, to boot!

    But then you probably think that she is hot And you probably also think Palin is hot too

    Hold on…a minute ago, weren’t we supposed to be gay?


  180. Now there’s a woman who is confident and arrogant about —-I’m really not sure why she’s confident or arrogant b/c she is one clueless beeitch

    Of course you don’t. That’s because you couldn’t find your own ass with both hands and a flashlight. However, I suspect it has something to do with her once being part of the IRS Chief Counsel’s Office, meaning that she wasn’t just a tax attorney, she was one of the smartest tax attorneys around. The people who work there are capable of performing a great deal of fine, exacting work, while your liberul artes eduminication has left you completely incapable of even the simplest reading comprehension, or even correctly quoting people you are echanging comments with on the internet.

  181. geoff Says:

    Let’s assume that FDR was opposed to collective bargaining. So what?

    Well, for one thing, it means that you wasted everybody’s time with your inability to read, and that you were lying when you irresponsibly called conservatives liars.

    No biggie – just another factless liberal liar.

    Just think if Junior Inc had privatized SS. Wall street would have bankrupted any private accounts.

    Instead, the current administration has bankrupted the public accounts.

    Why aren’t you people worried about the too big to fail corporations?

    And the Moving Finger, Having Lost, Moves On.

  182. geoff Says:

    You may not like it but this country voted with all but 9 nations to ratify the Universal Declaration of Human Rights in 1948.

    …and the US considers it to be a non-binding declaration, so it means exactly nothing if it is superceded by US law.

  183. geoff Says:

    “No, what’s especially amusing is that you don’t know where the TEA party got its name:
    Taxed
    Enough
    Already
    Keep up, son.”

    This kid can’t get anything right. Some people use that acronym, but it wasn’t where the Tea Party got its name. Hasn’t this kid seen the Santelli rant?

  184. geoff Says:

    But then you probably think that she is hot And you probably also think Palin is hot too

    So we’ve completely left the topic of the legitimate powers of public employees’ unions and moved on to lame little rants about women AI finds “Hot or Not?”

    What an uninteresting turn. This one’s done – he’s gone from trying to mimic arguments he doesn’t quite understand to just spewing embarrassingly weak insults. Time for banning.

  185. Sean M. Says:

    Time for banning.

    Aw, hells naw! I’m sure there’s plenty more entertainment to be had at its expense.

  186. geoff Says:

    I’m sure there’s plenty more entertainment to be had at its expense.

    Do you remember that gay Harvard dropout kid who trolled at Ace’s for a while? Maybe 5 years ago? AI reminds me of him, though he’s not as bright. The Harvard kid started hanging out late at night, just yakking, after he realized that none of his arguments were carrying any water. Gotta give him credit for being smart enough to change his ways.

    But as I said, AI’s not that bright.

  187. AmericanInsurgent Says:

    You’re saying Bachmann was in the IRS Chief Counsel’s office. Hard to believe. She doesn’t even know basic American History. Maybe she’s smart at collecting federal taxes, which is contradictory to her teabagger leader bit.
    She’s as good of a congresswomen as you are a misinterpreter of FDR’s letter to the federal employees union. You must be a tax attorney too.
    Bachmann needs to go back to doing taxes b/c she embarrasses herself by saying totally bat shit stuff. She must have the worst staff in congress b/c that’s their job to make sure she doesn’t go off the ranch. She’s saying things on a weekly basis that places her basis competence to do her job into question by the reality-based community.
    Your comment that I can’t read and comprehend FDR’s letter. which is the basis for a new favorite teapublicorp talking point, is delusional. You said you were going to prove FDR rejected collective bargaining for government employees by going line by line. Then you quoted a couple lines out of context. And, I did the line by line on the letter proving that the right wing FDR talking point is another intentional fabrication. FDR was thanking the union for agreeing that they would never strike.
    When did I fail to correctly quote someone? Your cohort Texresa tried an old Rehnquist trick of planting a quote that she made up about FDR. Vague insults regarding my abilities just prove that I won the argument. You are either a world class liar, a self-delusional teabagger, or you need further schooling to teach you how to read and understand 8th grade level reading. At first, I thought you might actually be smart enough to admit what the letter really said

  188. geoff Says:

    I did the line by line on the letter proving that the right wing FDR talking point is another intentional fabrication.

    That was funny. Line by line demonstration that you can’t follow prose.

  189. Sean M. Says:

    You’re saying Bachmann was in the IRS Chief Counsel’s office. Hard to believe.

    What you’d rather not believe and what is hard to believe are actually two distinctly different things.

  190. Sean M. Says:

    Hey, AI, have you written to President Obama, your member of congress, or either of your senators to demand that federal employees get the collective bargaining rights that you’re certain that FDR was arguing for but which they still do not have to this very day?

  191. Sean M. Says:

    I mean, FDR, who you claim wanted it to happen, apparently wanted to get it done. Since then, there have been six Democrat presidents, most of whom have had Democrat majorities in congress, and yet, it still hasn’t happened.

    What the hell is going on?

  192. Sean M. Says:

    Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

    Truman?

    Kennedy?

    Johnson?

    Carter?

    Clinton?

    Obama?

  193. AmericanInsurgent Says:

    Federal employees don’t need unions b/c they have more than competitive wages and benefits.

  194. Car in Says:

    BTW, corporations don’t pay taxes – if you did your research, you would know that.

    Yes, they do.

    GE doesn’t pay corporate taxes. They’ve been given “credits” for every green machine they make, making their tax liability basically zero.

  195. Car in Says:

    ve. She doesn’t even know basic American History. Maybe she’s smart at collectin

    57 states. Maybe Obama should go back to being a community organizer.

  196. AmericanInsurgent Says:

    It’s hard to believe that Michelle Bachmann is an attorney much less an IRS attorney because she has failed demonstrate any intelligence in her frequent nonsensical public rants “Rep. Michele Bachmann earned her law degree from televangelist Pat Robertson’s Regent University, but that doesn’t necessarily mean her alma mater backs her possible presidential bid. The dean of the university’s Pat Robertson School of Government thinks her response to President Obama’s State of the Union address was unwise and stated that she’s too inexperienced to make it to the Oval Office just yet.”
    http://minnesotaindependent.com/77067/bachmanns-alma-mater-questions-her-qualifications-for-president
    Bachmann is no longer authorized to practice law.
    http://www.mncourts.gov/mars/AttorneyDetail.aspx?id=0179863
    Bachmann was a tax collection attorney for the IRS . One of the big tax scoflaws Bachmann went after was Marvin Manypenny, an American Indian student who worked for a nonprofit and made less than $10,000. Big F’in deal
    http://www.dumpbachmann.com/2011/02/michele-tax-attorney-bachmann-was-no.html

  197. Car in Says:

    I don’t really understand what Bachmann has to do with this post?

    But, if she is such a horrible candidate, shouldn’t you be encouraging us to run with her? So she can go down in flames?

    Stop being a concern troll.

    If I do a post – at some point – about presidential candidates, you can bring it back up.

    Right now we are experiencing an actual president who has no clue what he is doing. THAT is a more pressing problem.

  198. Car in Says:

    And, I direct your attention to this appraisal of his abilities.

    Tidbit, cause I doubt you’ll actually go read it:

    In classic management theory, Barack Obama would have to be described as an abdicative manager.

    The abdicative manager evidences a tendency to flee from responsibility and is frequently encountered in situations where he or she never wanted the job in the first place (for instance, a son or daughter who inherits a company or the individual who discovers that they are incapable of adequate performance). Abdication can be exhibited in a variety of ways, ranging from physically removing oneself through travel (the confusion of movement with action), to obsessing about personal interests or a limited range of controllable subjects.

    Obama’s frequent vacations and absences, especially in times of crisis, coupled with his unwillingness to personally invest himself in key initiatives, are demonstrative of this style. An excellent example occurred after passage of the healthcare initiative. Having ceded authority in what would later be described as his key achievement to Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid, he watched as they forced the bill through under a manufactured emergency that precluded lawmakers from having time to read it. He then went on a four-day vacation before signing it.

  199. scottw Says:

    “Federal employees don’t need unions b/c they have more than competitive wages and benefits.”

    Just like the teachers in WI.

  200. xbradtc Says:

    Federal employees don’t need unions b/c they have more than competitive wages and benefits.

    Given that Wisconsin’s teachers still have far better than average income, retirement, and healthcare benefits, you have just invalidated your entire argument against public employee union reform.

  201. AmericanInsurgent Says:

    Another brilliant “analysis” by a teabagger: “That was funny. Line by line demonstration that you can’t follow prose.”
    The Teabagger talking point is that FDR rejected collective bargaining by public employees. Of course, teabaggers don’t cite to the primary source of this alleged rejection of collective bargaining for good reason. FDR does not say that he rejects collective bargaining for public employees in the letter.
    In 1959, Wisconsin became the first state to enact public employee collective bargaining laws. President John F. Kennedy then followed with an executive order granting federal employees the right to bargain collectively.

  202. MJ Says:

    That was an awesome thread. Thanks for playing, AI.

    The evil corporation of AOL Huff Post just laid off 200 writers. They must be evil, but you used a few articles as a reference, so they must be ok. Which is it? Can both be true?

    And if you persist in calling people teabaggers, please understand that you then put yourself in the position of being the teabaggee.

    Now hold still while I dip my balls in your mouth.

    Oh, and here’s my list of questions for you:

    1. Was John Edwards a credible VP nominee?
    2. Do you believe that documents were ‘created’ as proof that GWB was AWOL during his service with the ANG?
    3. Do you believe that John Kerry won Florida in 2004? Gore in 2000?
    4. Do you believe that Bush v Gore was an attempt to halt a state constitutional recount?
    5. Do you believe that Colin Powell lied about WMD in Iraq?
    6. Do you believe that Israel is occupying Palestinian land?
    7. Do you believe that all profit is evil?
    8. Do you believe the constitution limits the freedoms of individuals, or the power of the government?
    9. Do you believe that Rachel Maddow or the former show ‘Countdown’ represent news or opinion?
    10. Are members of the military mercenaries? Are they worthy of your respect?

    Are the following rights or privileges?

    1. A college education.
    2. Health insurance.
    3. A livable wage.
    4. Owning a gun.
    5. American citizenship for those working in the US legally or not.
    6. Internet access.

  203. AmericanInsurgent Says:

    Contrary to another teabagger lying point, the federal government does have unions. The National Federation of Federal Employees (NFFE) is an American labor union which represents about 100,000 public employees in the federal government. .
    Workers in federal agencies had formed craft-based unions on the local level beginning in the early 1880s. Unions representing letter carriers and railway postal clerks won passage in 1888 of federal legislation mandating an eight-hour day for postal workers. In 1898, these two unions—with the support of the Knights of Labor and the American Federation of Labor—pushed for legislation revising federal postal salaries as well. Although the effort was unsuccessful, a union of postal clerks organized in 1900.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Federation_of_Federal_Employees

    The NFFE is the union to whom FDR’s letter was directed.

    http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=15445#ixzz1GdR9aZec

  204. MJ Says:

    Addendum to number 6 on the first list: If so, which lands are occupied?

  205. scottw Says:

    “Contrary to another teabagger lying point, the federal government does have unions”
    “Federal employees don’t need unions b/c they have more than competitive wages and benefits.”

    Agreed, lets eliminate them.

  206. xbradtc Says:

    AI, nice strawman. We didn’t claim that federal employees were not permitted unions.

    D’uh, most federal employees do have some craft union representation. PATCO ring a bell?

  207. Jay in Ames Says:

    I lurves watching the pinata flail in the morning.

    Remember your talking point from yesterday, that you already gave up on. That would be the one you picked up again. You shouldn’t argue things that you have already lost. Picking federal unions, when we are talking collective bargaining, that’s another loser.

    Just trying to help.

  208. AmericanInsurgent Says:

    Congress enacted the landmark National Labor Relations Act (“Wagner Act”) in 1935 – the Magna Carta of the American labor movement. It excluded federal, state and local employees. It created the National Labor Relations Board to enforce the rights of labor. Employers were legally obligated to bargain collectively with their employees. In 1937 in a Senate speech, Roosevelt intoned, “The denial or observance of this right means the difference between despotism and democracy.”
    In 1958, New York City Mayor Robert Wagner signed an executive order allowing civil workers to unionize. This opened up the floodgates around the country as other Democratic legislators followed Wagner’s lead. In 1959, Wisconsin became the first state to enact public employee collective bargaining laws. President John F. Kennedy then followed with an executive order granting federal employees the right to bargain collectively.

    http://www.laborunionreport.com/portal/2010/10/unions-patron-saint-fdr-rejected-public-sector-unions/

    Don’t you hate it when facts and American history prove that the entire Teapublicorp party and the teabaggers are lying about nearly everything relevant to the this blog about Walker’s deceitful actions? You need to cease believing right wing bloviators and the Rovian and Koch brothers, etc. The tea party is controlled by the corporatists and they are in the final stages of eviscerating the middle class. They have convinced you to vote directly contrary to your own interests. Corporations are the source of our problems; they control both parties and all three branches of the federal government and most of the states. We need to chop the heads off the corporations. But it would be really helpful if they were paying federal and state and local taxes. And, all the subsidies and nonbid contracts must stop. It’s not complicated: make the corporations pay their fair share and stop giving them government funds

  209. MJ Says:

    I don’t think that word means what you think it means.

    Can you please answer my questions above?

  210. Jay in Ames Says:

    Can’t even read the title of his own link. Or the content.

    Won’t listen to us, won’t even read the articles posted by him. Interesting strategy. Complete fail, but interesting.

  211. AmericanInsurgent Says:

    Teabaggers HAVE spread the lie that federal workers don’t have the right to collectively bargain. So, good, you admit that is not true but only after I proved it was a lie. But teapublicans, including Gov. Walker, have lied about this.

    http://www.northlandsnewscenter.com/news/video/Wisconsin-State-Assembly-Passes–117760983.html

    Why do you lie about the lies your party spreads when there is videotape proving that you are LYING AGAIN.

  212. Car in Says:

    You didn’t prove anything.

    Regardless of whether FDR supported the idea or not (I – and most folks – say not), let us move on from there.

    Federal (and state) unions have resulted in a collusion between union leaders and elected officials that has poisoned our democracy.

    Union support elects officials who then give the unions what ever they want. Or they don’t support them next time around. There are absolutely no checks or balances in this arrangement. Which has resulted in pay structures and benefits out of whack with 1) average wages of those supporting these workers and 2) what can be afforded.

    Taking away collective bargaining is a check. A balance.

    And your rants about corporations are just incoherent.


  213. So, good YOU BELIEVE it says FDR rejects collective bargaining. Here’s a perfect example of how the teabaggers make stuff up.

    YOU PUT QUOTATION MARKS AROUND YOUR BELIEF THAT: FDR rejects collective bargaining. That was an intentional misrepresentation.

    Sweetie, the reason that I put quotation marks around that particular quotation is that I was using your own words from a previous comment in toto, and I wanted to be sure that they were attributed to you. (See the last sentence of your comment at 11:05 p.m. https://isthisblogon.wordpress.com/2011/03/14/do-not-take-civics-lessons-from-this-woman/#comment-2168)

    If you think this sentence says FDR rejects collective bargaining for public employees, then you are dreaming.

    I’m thinking you need to ask for a refund for that “top-notch liberal arts” education that you received. They did not teach you to THINK.

  214. AmericanInsurgent Says:

    Maybe your teabagger delusion syndrome prevents you from understanding FDR’s letter but it’s just further proof that teabaggers are just rightards with a new nickname. Rightard is defined as someone whose right wing ideology clouds their judgment. There seems to be an epidemic of this right wing clouded judgment.

    You have all those right wing lying points don’t you?

    So, my criticisms of the corporatist controlled governments is a rant. So, do you really think those corporations are paying their fair share of taxes? Walker and other governors have not used the irresponsible spending cuts on public employees wages and benefits to balance any state budget. They have given their beloved corporations and billionaires tax cuts. In Walker’s case he is so brazen and stupid that tax cuts are the same amount he’s cutting the emloyees. Walker and the other corporatist tools did not campaign on the promise to end collective bargaining.
    The real reason there are problems with the funding of these pensions is that the wall street crooks like Kasich gambled away the investments the state pensions have made. Let’s prosecute some of these criminals and put the money they stole back in the pensions. Public employees and their CBA’s did not cause the financial problems the states have; the failure to make the rich and corporations pay their fair share and the outsourcing of millions of good jobs by these corporations you love so much.
    47,000 factories closed during the Bush Administration with many of those jobs moved overseas and gone for good. This was during the era of the much vaunted Bush Tax Cuts. In addition there was zero net job creation during the 8 years of Bush Junior
    And these outsourcing corporations got tax breaks for outsourcing American jobs.
    Are you so delusional that you will not admit that these greedy corporations are making record profits b/c the new factories come with discounted employees and no government regulation? Fuck the American working man–corporate profits are more important to the corporatists running our government.
    The sorry thing about you teabaggers is that you cannot be educated. You refuse to admit facts staring you right in the face. You’re lucky they don’t make you take a test to show whether you are too uninformed and delusional to vote. Maybe that would force you corporate shills to finally face facts and cease doing the work of these despicable corporations. It probably wouldn’t matter; they’ll just rig another election w/ their corporate electronic voting machines w/ no paper trail


  215. My new father tells me to keep up:

    I received a top-notch liberal arts education and learned to think and write analytically. I also learned to use research…

    Apparently, they neglected to teach you how to READ, as the comment to which you refer was written by ME. Unless people are starting to name their SONS Teresa, I believe that would make me your Mommy….

    B/c he apparently thought i was from a more modern generation, ie, he must be really old.

    Well, I turned 50 last October, but I’ve been told that 50 is the new 30…. 😉

    How desperate is it that you even have to lie about where the TEABAGGERS got their name. It was the name Faux News and politicians used to advertise the teabagging of Obama—Ha Ha—the joke was on the teabaggers.

    The term “teabagging” was used by Anderson Cooper while interviewing David Gergen on CNN:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I64Ed5iLu4M
    “Classy” liberals started using the term “teabagger” to refer to the Tea Party protesters after that. I’m SURE they meant no disrespect by the use of that term, because we all know that liberals would NEVER use a disparaging homosexual slur. That would be insensitive, right?


  216. AmericanInsurgent Says:
    March 15, 2011 at 7:29 am
    Federal employees don’t need unions b/c they have more than competitive wages and benefits.

    I agree – let’s get rid of them. Then this whole “collective bargaining” argument becomes moot, no?


  217. AmericanInsurgent Says:
    March 15, 2011 at 1:55 am

    I’m thinking that you boys are into teabagging. Go for it; your gay sex life is your business.

    ….she is one clueless beeitch….

    …those of us on the human side of the political spectrum find women like these two and Ann Coulter to be skanks…

    And that “New Civility” raises its head once again….

  218. AmericanInsurgent Says:

    You teabaggers were so proud of yourselves for teabagging Obama. You wore teabags on your heads, you sent a big tea bag to Obama. Why is it a disparaging homosexual slur? Women were teabagging and they could also teabag a man sexually. You asked for it you got it. It was just a very graphic example of how far out of touch you people are.

    That was very Breitbart/O’Keefe of you to edit a sentence out of context to say the complete opposite. That’s intellectually dishonest and the fact that you had to resort to that trick proved that you had nothing to support the teabaggers’ fantasy of what they wish FDR said.

    I quoted the letter exactly as written. Throughout the letter, FDR recognizes the union as the organization collectively bargaining for the federal employees. The NFFE was the union for many federal employees before, during, and after FDR’s letter. And the NFFE still represents about 100,000 federal workers today. As noted above, that little weasel Walker lied about that too.
    Walker and his repug accomplices advocated the collective bargaining provision as a financial issue up until they “dictated” that it was not a financial issue so they could ram it through w/o a quorum and in violation of the Wisconsin Sunshine law. Fox Fiction and those repugs thought they were so clever. Even they knew that it was a bush league maneuver and now they will be recalled. They’re a bunch of sleazy, slimey snakes.
    It’s obviously a quixotic task to educate your particular brand of the delusional right wing. You and your corporate bosses will get what you deserve soon enough.


  219. Wow I step away for a few hours and miss out on all of raging idiot’s rage.

  220. AmericanInsurgent Says:

    Sorry for mistaking you for a male, you are clearly a mother . . . .

  221. Car in Says:

    Walker and his repug accomplices advocated the collective bargaining provision as a financial issue up until they “dictated” that it was not a financial issue so they could ram it through w/o a quorum and in violation of the Wisconsin Sunshine law.

    Not a violation.

    Don’t hold your breath for their recall.

    Or rather, do.

  222. MJ Says:

    Please take my challenge and answer my questions OR just answer this one:

    Was 9/11 an inside job?


  223. Sorry for mistaking you for a male, you are clearly a mother . . . .

    You could tell that just from my writing? Wow, you must be some kind of witch or something! Do you know Christine O’Donnell? I’ll bet you two are BFFs!

    I’m quite proud of my children, actually – not a liberal in the bunch.

    Yeppers, lots and lots of young adult conservatives, graduating from college, getting married, and having children of their own, bringing even more little conservatives into the world. It’s gonna be a conservative utopia!

    Too bad that your side won’t be able to keep up….

  224. Hotspur Says:

    This had all of the potential to become fun. It quickly became a tedious bore.

    One cannot debate with someone who intentionally will not comprehend the words that are right in front of his eyes. Typical leftist tactic.

    The only thing this poat hasn’t included was a reference to Hitler. But I’ve taken care of that now, haven’t I?

  225. Paulitics Says:

    I believe AI is congenitally incapable of constructing a single sentence without the words “teabagger”, “rethug”, or “corporatist”.

  226. agiledog Says:

    Hey, AmericanIdiot, if we are so wrong and unable to be educated, why waste your time on us here at this blog? We’re not an evil corporation – why don’t you spend your time trying to shutdown General Motors, Or General Electric? Stand up for your beliefs, and try to make a difference.

    And if you succeed with GM, just image how much you’ll be loved by the thousands of union folks you put out of work…..

    What a twatwaffle.

  227. Jay in Ames Says:

    Yay, Godwin finally made the party!

  228. Hotspur Says:

    Yay, Godwin finally made the party!

    Hahahahaha Yeah, J’Ames, he must have been at a union protest or something – a whole day of posting by a lib with no mention of Hitler and Nazis. Will wonders never cease?


  229. I think my comment about lots and lots of little conservatives may have given AI heart palpitations. The ensuing shock might have pushed him over the edge.

    Good thing his healthcare will be paid for by all of those awful tax-paying capitalists who work for those evil corporations….

  230. Paulitics Says:

    We’re like a bunch of housecats waiting for the dead mouse we’ve been batting around to come back to life, so we can bat it around some more.

  231. AmericanInsurgent Says:

    I never used the word Rethug.

    You all have made your choice to be loyal, obedient slaves to your corporatist masters. As John Boehner would say, “So be it.” Unless you are in the top 1% of income, the logical choice is for the workers b/c these rightard governors are screwing all government workers, not just union members.

    You’ve decided to go with huge tax loopholes for corporations instead of workers making approx. $50,000/yr. You are in favor of these workers having their net salary reduced by 1000’s of $$$ at a time when they were already having a hard time making ends meet.
    You’ve decided to support corporate outsourcing of more factories.
    Do you people know that the corporations and the third party slush funds run by Rove, the Kochs, the Chamber could care less about you? They are USING you to spread the lies. That’s all they really care about: you being gullible enough to side with the billionaires and multi-national corps. Clearly you have bought it hook, line, and sinker.
    There is always 25-30% of voters who constitute the right wing lunatic fringe. Your political ideology will lose, starting w/ the recalls in Wisconsin.

    The phone is ringing; you better answer it because it’s a conference call w/ the Kochs, Dick Armey, Karl Rove. . . .Or, is it a prank call to discover your radical views?

  232. AmericanInsurgent Says:

    Hey Tim, these people actually think they’re winning this argument. Of course, they believe all kinds of delusional things like Obama’s parent’s conspiring to put birth notices in 2 Hawaii newspapers.

  233. Paulitics Says:

    Funny, you still haven’t answered my question: Do you have a job?

    It’s a simple question, easily answered with a “yes” or a “no.”

  234. Hotspur Says:

    Wow. The only thing missing is your fist banging on your high chair tray.

    Are there any more HuffPo and MoveOn talking points you care to cram into tantrum?

  235. Hotspur Says:

    Wow. The only thing missing is your fist banging on your high chair tray.

    Are there any more HuffPo and MoveOn talking points you care to cram into yourtantrum?

  236. Hotspur Says:

    Hey, there’s an echo.

  237. Paulitics Says:

    Get in line, Hotspur. I’ve asked him the same question 72 times and he refuses to answer.

  238. Jay in Ames Says:

    I never realized just how much power Karl Rove had. And to think he’s not even half as powerful as Georgia Pacific paper company!

    Do you have a newsletter? Can you send it, or will the crayon melt in the sun?

  239. geoff Says:

    FDR does not say that he rejects collective bargaining for public employees in the letter.

    We’ve asked the question about 4 times on this thread: what sort of FDR-approved collective bargaining do you envision?

    Remember, FDR said that you can’t bind the employer, that the government can’t even truly represent the employer, and that you can’t resort to strikes to enforce your position. So explain to me how FDR’s form of collective bargaining works.

    It is clear that he’s gutted the concept and simply kept the name to avoid backlash. Clear to me, anyway.

  240. MCPO Airdale Says:

    AI – So, how much does Soros and his crew pay you to blather nonsense like this? Just enough to cover your recreational drugs I’ll bet.


  241. Corporations are evil!!!
    They want to kill you!

    Just as Feudalism was replaced by Capitalism, Capitalism will be replaced by Communism

  242. Hotspur Says:

    Get in line, Hotspur. I’ve asked him the same question 72 times and he refuses to answer.

    IIRC he said it was none of your business, which is libspeak for:

    a. I don’t have a job.
    2. I am a collidge professor
    iii. I have a gubbmint job.
    D. I am in this county illegally.

    I’ll just go with a.

  243. Paulitics Says:

    We had a lot of fun at AI’s expense at last night’s meetup, especially the fact that he got a top-notch liberal arts education where he learned to do research!

    Even the waitress made fun of him.

  244. xbradtc Says:

    I think the waitress was also the holder of a top notch liberal arts education!

  245. MJ Says:

    Hey assholes I got a top notch liberal arts education too. Did I mention I parlayed that into a career as a bartender?

    Then went to work for evil corporate masters—but not until I got certifications in statistics.

    AI: I’ll have a Sierra Nevada, stat!

  246. Jay in Ames Says:

    AI: I’ll have a Sierra Nevada, stat!

    I have a feeling that AI works somewhere that involves lower end ales, MJ. Kinda like a college dive bar. Nah, exactly like a college dive bar.

    Better order a beast or a natty lite.

  247. Paulitics Says:

    I think you’re all wrong. I think he works (more or less) for an evil corporatist teabagging corporation, sorting mail. That’s what a top-notch liberal arts education where he learned to do research got him.


  248. Mail sorters of the world unite!!!!!

  249. MJ Says:

    The corporate hating culture that liberals have is perplexing. What they need to admit is that they hate corporations, but only the ones that make things or provide services that they don’t like.

    Either that or they think the world under socialism was a panacea of wealth or fairness. A liberal arts education when it isn’t balanced with history can lead the easily influenced to believe such things.

  250. agiledog Says:

    I agree, MJ. If they say they hate all corporations, I am sure they haven’t thought that out very far.

  251. Paulitics Says:

    Dude, they haven’t thought anything out very far; that’s what makes them useful idjits.

  252. agiledog Says:

    And sometimes not even very useful.

  253. Paulitics Says:

    Wonder where AI goes when he stops flinging his own feces at this blog.


  254. I want to know which college/university that AI went to, so that I will be sure not to waste any of my hard-earned filthy non-union lucre there.

    I’m sure no capitalists or people who work for corporations make donations to that school either, right? No endowed scholarships, no buildings donated, no “booster” dollars coming from the private sector at all – because that would be a betrayal of the first order….

    Power to the people, man!

  255. Paulitics Says:

    Too bad AI is gone. We could set him up with PJM.

  256. scottw Says:

    What time does AI’s shift at Walmart end?

  257. Paulitics Says:

    When the big hand is on the 1 and 2 number, and the little hand is … wait, I forget how this works.

  258. Paulitics Says:

    Damn non-top-notch liberal arts education…


  259. Hold on, now – if AI works at Wal-Mart, doesn’t that mean that he works for one of those evil corporations? If so, I hope he doesn’t take a paycheck from them – THAT.WOULD.BE.WRONG.

    I’m sure he can trade his entire paycheck in for some Carbon Offset Credits from Mr. Gore as penance, though.

    I wonder what those taste like sauteed in pure soybean oil? I sure hope they’re lowfat….

  260. Paulitics Says:

    AI, you missing dog head, do you have a job?

  261. xbradtc Says:

    AI would certainly never take employment at Wal-Mart, which is both an evil corporation, AND a non-union shop.

  262. Hotspur Says:

    Is this Shit Hole Dump on?

  263. jw Says:

    Ok, Youse guys! I’ve read this whole friggin’ thread of comments.

    Who the hell had a party at Ca rin’s place and didn’t invite me? (looking at Ca rin suspiciously) Humph!

    (in all actuality, I couldn’t attend due to medical reasons), but, damn, I missed one HELL of a party!

    I’m so glad that Artificial Intelligence could make it though. It seems He/She/It was the guest of honor.

    Thanks for a belated great time, Ca rin!

  264. jw Says:

    You have such, congenial and well behaved guests. As usual.

    I wonder if “Bob” isn’t peeking his head in as “AI”?..*grins*

    No matter…he/her/it, was shot down as usual!

  265. Car In Says:

    I hope you’re feeling better jw 😦

    and, they mostly had the party w/o me as well.

  266. AmericanInsurgent Says:

    You geniuses couldn’t even win the argument when you were just “playing with yourselves” for over 3 days. My last comment was on 3/15/11 @ about 3pm; and you people continued “commenting” until 3/18/11 @ 9pm. Although calling the immature name-calling displayed here commenting is giving you too much credit.
    Wow, I must have really struck a nerve in teabagger nation to merit 266 comments to a blog that is lucky to get 5 comments most of the time. Your comments were all disturbingly hostile. You’d think I had attacked a member of your family. Do you really think that these corporations and their governors need you to defend them? To lie for them?
    So, I guess they taught you ‘baggers to insult liberal bloggers’ employment status as an irrelevant talking point. If you were really interested in the relevant issues, then the fact that I have been in the teamsters union at UPS, that I have worked as a public employee, and that many of my friends and family members worked and/or still work for the government as teachers, policeman, fireman, judges, prosecutors, city councilmen, probation officers, public defenders, postal workers, etc. And, some belong to unions but most do not. And, the reality is that these public employees all work very hard, take their jobs very seriously, and make much less than they could in the private sector. Furthermore, they already pay a fair portion of their health insurance costs and contribute to their retirement. And, their government retirement takes the place of social security.
    It seems crystal clear that your collective opinions of public employees and their unions are based on ignorance and loyalty to the right wing leaders who tell you what to believe. I knew that telling your kind that I had a liberal arts education was red meat and was a huge distraction. Especially after I suggested dissolving corporations. So easy to rile up.
    Here’s more red meat for you ‘baggers to misinterpret: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/22/opinion/22cronon.html?_r=1

  267. AmericanInsurgent Says:

    Oh, and here’s one of the golden oldies that the right wing blabbers: “If you want to blame someone for taking the economy to the brink, you should focus on people like Barney Frank, Franklin Raines, Jaime Gorelick, and others, who resisted any effort to reform FANNIE and FREDDIE”
    Wrong!!!
    “[The]regulators, responding to accounting scandals at the companies, placed temporary restraints on both Fannie and Freddie that curtailed their lending just as housing prices were really taking off. Also, they didn’t do any subprime lending, because they can’t: the definition of a subprime loan is precisely a loan that doesn’t meet the requirement, imposed by law, that Fannie and Freddie buy only mortgages issued to borrowers who made substantial down payments and carefully documented their income.
    So whatever bad incentives the implicit federal guarantee creates have been offset by the fact that Fannie and Freddie were and are tightly regulated with regard to the risks they can take. You could say that the Fannie-Freddie experience shows that regulation works.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/14/opinion/14krugman.html
    Better targets for blame in government circles might be the 2000 law which ensured that credit default swaps would remain unregulated, the SEC’s puzzling 2004 decision to allow the largest brokerage firms to borrow upwards of 30 times their capital and that same agency’s failure to oversee those brokerage firms in subsequent years as many gorged on subprime debt.
    http://www.businessweek.com/investing/insights/blog/archives/2008/09/community_reinv.html
    And, then there was the idiotic move by Clinton and Congress to repeal Glass-Steagall
    “1999: The Financial Services Modernization Act repealed Glass-Steagall, a law that had separated the commercial-banking industry from Wall Street, and the two industries, plus insurance, came together again. Banks became bigger, clumsier, and hard to manage. Apparently, risk-management became all but impossible, even as banks had greater access to larger pools of capital.”
    http://online.barrons.com/article/SB122246742997580395.html
    Blaming Fannie and Freddie is one of the right wings’ favorite talking points. Blackie, I think you’re a lawyer and should know better.

  268. AmericanInsurgent Says:

    While my last comment is being moderated (???), here’s a bonus tea party hypocrites comment:
    Just in his mid-20s, Brian Deschane has no college degree, very little management experience and two drunken-driving convictions.
    Yet he has landed an $81,500-per-year job in Gov. Scott Walker’s administration overseeing environmental and regulatory matters and dozens of employees at the Department of Commerce. Even though Walker says the state is broke and public employees are overpaid, Deschane already has earned a promotion and a 26% pay raise in just two months with the state.
    How did Deschane score his plum assignment with the Walker team?
    It’s all in the family.
    His father is Jerry Deschane, executive vice president and longtime lobbyist for the Madison-based Wisconsin Builders Association, which bet big on Walker during last year’s governor’s race.
    The group’s political action committee gave $29,000 to Walker and his running mate, Lt. Gov. Rebecca Kleefisch, last year, making it one of the top five PAC donors to the governor’s successful campaign. Even more impressive, members of the trade group funneled more than $92,000 through its conduit to Walker’s campaign over the past two years.
    Total donations: $121,652.”
    http://www.jsonline.com/watchdog/noquarter/119159584.html

  269. Vmaximus Says:

    Told ya!
    He had to get the last word in.
    Oh wait that was some other lib troll Sorry AI

  270. Car in Says:

    And, the reality is that these public employees all work very hard, take their jobs very seriously, and make much less than they could in the private sector. Furthermore, they already pay a fair portion of their health insurance costs and contribute to their retirement. And, their government

    bullshit- public employees would NOT be making more in the private sector.

    Just this weekend, I was reading a teacher defending that she paid into her health insurance. A whole whopping $100 a year. $200 for a family.

    You wanna know what we pay? Per month? Go ahead, take a guess how the real world lives.

  271. Car in Says:

    And, I didn’t moderate your comment. It had too many links in it,and went there on it’s own.

  272. xbradtc Says:

    …and make much less than they could in the private sector.

    No. NO. NO!

    They’d be unemployed in the private sector.

  273. AmericanInsurgent Says:

    Did I say you moderated my comment? Paranoid much?

  274. AmericanInsurgent Says:

    Sorry? I had too many links in my comment. Scoff
    That’s called actual evidence and something other than out of my ass to support my opinion.
    It seems the majority of the people in Wisconsin who elected a Democrat to replace the Walker swing vote on the Wisc Supreme Court disagree w/ your elitist unsupported opinion of public employees
    My opinion on what public employees spend on health care is based upon personal knowledge.
    Koch and other outside corporate groups spent over $2 million for the Wisconsin Supreme Court justice who was Walker’s swing vote

  275. Car in Says:

    Let me put this all together in one comment.

    #

    Did I say you moderated my comment? Paranoid much?

    #
    AmericanInsurgent Says:

    April 6, 2011 at 10:42 pm e

    Sorry? I had too many links in my comment. Scoff
    While my last comment is being moderated (???),

    Yes, you did suggest (?????) that I was moderating your comment, and I explained that WP had done that because it had too many links.

    That’s called actual evidence and something other than out of my ass to support my opinion.

    Take it up with WordPress.

  276. Car in Says:

    My opinion on what public employees spend on health care is based upon personal knowledge.

    Oh? And how much would that be? How much do the public employees YOU know spend on health care?

    Do tell. I doubt it’s a fraction of what I pay.

  277. Car in Says:

    Koch and other outside corporate groups spent over $2 million for the Wisconsin Supreme Court justice who was Walker’s swing vote

    So what? Liberals have been doing this for years. You are aware that Soros had a project, during the last elections, to target and support state elections. The Secretary of State project. Michigan was one of the targeted states.


  278. How much did the unions and their friends pay? Hmmmmm?


  279. Hey, I think your website might be having browser compatibility issues.
    When I look at your blog in Opera, it looks fine but when opening in Internet
    Explorer, it has some overlapping. I just
    wanted to give you a quick heads up! Other then that, superb blog!


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